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Intro: Welcome to Arbitral Insights, a podcast series brought to you by our international arbitration practice lawyers here at Reed Smith. I'm Peter Rosher, Global Head of Reed Smith's International Arbitration Practice. I hope you enjoy the industry commentary, insights and anecdotes we share with you in the course of this series, wherever in the world you are. If you have any questions about any of the topics discussed, please do contact our speakers. Welcome to our Women in Arbitration podcast miniseries, a platform for women's voices across the global international arbitration community. I'm Lucy Winnington-Ingram, an international arbitration lawyer based in Reid Smith's London office. In these episodes, we will hear from leading women in the international arbitration space and discuss industry news, trends, developments, and matters of interest. And with that, let's get started. 

Lucy: Thank you for tuning into our annual International Women's Day podcast. I'm Lucy Winnington-Ingram, a partner in our international arbitration team. This year's theme for International Women's Day is Accelerate Action. According to data from the World Economic Forum, at the current rate of progress, it will take until 2158, which is roughly five generations from now, to reach full gender parity. Focusing on the need to accelerate action emphasizes the importance of taking swift and decisive steps to achieve gender equality. It calls for increased momentum and urgency in addressing the systemic barriers and biases that women face, both in personal and professional spheres. So with that, let's kick off with my first guest. So my first guest this morning is Ayse Yazir, Managing Director of Bench Walk Advisors. Ayse, thanks so much for joining me today. Now Ayse, as you know, this year's theme for International Women's Day is Accelerate Action. So my first question to you then is what does Accelerate Action mean to you? 

Ayse: I think it's a really good thing because when I was looking at the statistics, it is quite disheartening because if we were to continue with exactly the same growth, we are not going to be having gender equality for five generations. It will take any other hundred years or over hundred years, which is totally unacceptable. So we need to make this as soon as possible and try to prove the equality to the world so that not just us and our kids wouldn't suffer the same problems that we had previously. To increase access rate action, when I looked at International Women's Day's website, they have written a few things like the education, diverse talent, and leadership support. But I think they forgot the most important thing when they wrote that. If they would like to do that as moms, we need to start from law because we are the ones who are creating the generations. And when I think about myself, for instance, I have a son. When he grows up, he always will assume a woman will have a job. It's very normal for a woman not to have a job as just cook, clean, stay back at home. He will be used to having a very strong mom. And that's why he will respect a new woman when he's together with her. And he will be happy to have a woman who has a career and something else. And also, I have a daughter. when she kind of gets worried or even scared that if she can do something or she can't, I always say to her, you can do it, honey. You can do it. And what I see around me is there are lots of people or the moms or the dads, they always differ the genders. They say to their sons, yes, son, you can do it. And the girl, you should be careful. And for me, if we want to access the gender equality, this has to start from home. And we need to start changing the new generation and thinking women and men, making them think women and men are equal and woman is very powerful. 

Lucy: Sure, I love that perspective. And I know you and I have chatted before a number of times about how we make it work as working mums and sort of the juggle that that can be sometimes. But you're absolutely right. And one of the things that I tell myself when I'm really busy at work and perhaps I feel like I'm not being as present a parent over a short period as I might otherwise like to be, is that hopefully my daughter will see what I'm doing and be proud of that and also strive to find a career that she finds equally fulfilling and enjoying. and when she grows up? 

Ayse: I can't agree with you more, Lucy. And I think the reason why I turned up is my mom and dad, they were both really feminists. And my dad always said to me, education is your golden bracelet. You have to have a really good career because he said, this will change everything in your life. Even if you're married to a guy and he's not treating you well, you can say, you know what, my love? Goodbye. So it is such a big power to have great education. And they always say, when even I questioned myself, they said, you can do it. And that kind of encouragement gave me a different vision than probably quite a lot of people who come from different countries or in the UK have the vision from. I was never scared of anything. My mom and dad always supported me. And they said, I can achieve everything. And that's why I think I turned up like this. 

Lucy: Love that Ayse. And I couldn't agree more. And I, you know, likewise grew up in a kind of similar household. And I was always told that my career would sort of always be there for me, no matter what else happened in my life. If I invested in it, I would kind of reap the rewards of that. Okay, so my next question to you, Ayse, then is, in your view, what's the best way to make International Women's Day impact last beyond just, you know, sort of one day of recognition? 

Ayse: I think that's a really good question as well, Lucy, because we see quite a lot of these events happening and the next day, you know, it's like a tick box. I did that, fine, let's move on. Then one of the things we can do is kind of supporting each other as a woman and it's supporting new generations as well. I usually get quite a lot of young intern girls and I spend more time talking to them and telling them how to improve their skills, what they need to do, why they should be confident. Because what I realize is women usually have the less confidence when they go to a meeting or they're having a discussion. They always question themselves. And guys usually have this like really good confidence. They walk into the room and they say, look at me, I know it all. So I try to push them and support them in a way that they know how worthy they are and how smart they are and how they are going to be successful when they are confident. And sometimes you need to put people on their place. I was speaking in a conference and it was in a different country, Lucy, and I had so many female and male lawyers saying, oh, Ayse, you are here who's looking after your kids? And I said, my husband. And they’d go ah, isn't he wonderful? And I said, excuse me, when he goes abroad, I look after the kids. No one says, you know, Ayse, you are doing a great job while your husband is giving speech in a different country. I was very actually cross with them. I said, why this is being questioned? And I said, why you are saying that my husband is great, he's looking after my kids. One of the male lawyers actually said it was a really good point. When you questioned me, I stepped back and I totally agreed with you. Everyone was coming and saying he was looking after your kids to you, and no one asked me. And I said, yeah, that's the point. Why there's a big discrepancies between me and a female or male lawyer. And also we need to change the jealousy between ourselves too. I mean, mentors can be women and men, but I have seen some women strongly talk about how we should be equal, but also kind of try to pull down the other woman. And we have to change ourselves too. So I will give you two examples, Lucy. We were about to do a roundtable discussion, and I was about to lead that with another lawyer lady, and I showed her one of my photos. It was taken for Vogue. And I said to her, oh my God, I'm going to be in Vogue. Isn't it great? Look at my photo. And she said, this is really nice, but it doesn't look like you. I was like, in a second, about to enter a roundtable discussion to empower women. And I had another remark, one lady was saying she'd been discriminated. I spent most of her time talking about the other female lawyers and how terrible they are and how they are dressed up. And I said to her, just a second, what are you talking about? So we have to change ourselves. We have to change a new generation. And we shouldn't just talk about it. But we have to change ourselves too if we want to achieve this. 

Lucy: I completely agree. And one of the things that I think sometimes people don't really talk about is sometimes I think some of the greatest blocks for junior women in any industry are actually senior women, sometimes, not always, but because, you know, historically, they've had to work so hard and endure such sort of difficult circumstances in order to get into those positions. Sometimes I think that they don't champion younger women in the way that one might hope or expect and that's obviously a massive generalization I should say that I personally have the privilege of working under some unbelievable mentors and actually you know growing up in my firm all of my bosses really were women and they you know could not have been better champions for me but I know that speaking to you know some friends some colleagues at other firms they experience that day-to-day what is it there's a saying about being a crown a crown straightener you know in the way that women have to support other women and try and champion them and also embrace and kind of um celebrate their successes as well. 

Ayse: I totally agree you see I think that and people change because man you see man they really support each other. I have never seen a group of men standing on the corner and saying look at his shoes it doesn't go with his outfit. It's always a woman, oh she dyed her hair. If she dressed up, you judge her. If she doesn't dress up, we judge her. If her hair is blonde we judge her. If her hair is black we judge her. So we don't win at all. We need to change that. 

Lucy: No, I completely agree. And also what you said about comments about your husband really resonated with me. You know, it’s very personal, but I'm incredibly lucky. My husband is, you know, we're a real partnership. And I wouldn't be able to do my job without us having a full time kind of 50-50 split of all child care. And that's just expected. And, you know, he's not babysitting. He's my toddler's father and he's just as capable or incapable of looking after her as I am and that's the way it should be. 

Ayse: I know I can't agree more Lucy and this this happened in a big international arbitration event and I was like I just can't believe if this is happening here that was what's happening right. 

Lucy: I mean that is that is unbelievable I've had those comments directed to me as well but not in a not in that kind of forum so I'm really I'm really surprised and saddened to hear that. But I mean, that just sort of goes to show why this year's theme is so appropriate. Ayse, as always, it has been a pleasure speaking to you. And thank you so much for coming on this morning. Thank you so much. Thank you. 

Lucy: So my next guest this morning is Alison Macdonald KC from Essex Court Chambers. Hi, Alison. Thanks so much for joining me. 

Alison: I’m delighted to be here. 

Lucy: So Alison, as you know, the theme for this year's International Women's day is accelerate actions. So the first question I wanted to ask you is, how can young women pursuing law feel empowered and supported in fields like international arbitration? 

Alison: Well, I think obviously everyone's different in what makes them feel supported and what you should feel supported when they start out in law. It's a great profession to work in, but it can be challenging. It can be confusing when you start out and you need that support to find your feet, I think. But speaking for myself, what made me feel supported in arbitration and international law, which I sort of developed in tandem, and I think are closely related in many ways, was having colleagues, all sorts of colleagues, men, women, senior, younger colleagues, who included you in things, had the faith to bring you into cases, even if it was in a really small junior role, talked to you like an equal, gave you opportunities, encouraged you to take steps. I remember when I did my first, I was about five years old when I first spoke in an ICSID case, and it was a senior colleague who really encouraged me to do that, said to the client, Alison's ready to do this. Obviously, I prepared obsessively for that small speaking slot. And I think having people who just nurture you, see your talent, and just help you have opportunities, encourage you to take speaker slots, go to that, tell you that conference abroad is something that would be good to go to. Just treat you as a whole human being and also, I think, understand human frailty. So if you're ill, or a family member's ill, or something like that, just be people around you, be human beings that you can tell them. That you know you're feeling rotten or can you have an extra day to turn in this draft and things so I think that that is what makes a supportive environment for women I think but hopefully also for everybody's benefit. 

Lucy: It’s really funny that you say that Alison because I think that my first ever speaking slot in an exit case was in a case with you and you were the person that I think encouraged the partners at the time to let me do it on the basis that I'd sort of been running that element of the of the case and you were you know a huge support to me and you've I mean I've worked with you since I was a trainee you've always been something of a mentor to me so I'm enormously grateful to you for that. 

Alison: I remember that well and you were absolutely fantastic and you were without doubt the best person in the team to do that particular job because you had nobody knew that very complex topic in the case as well as you did and so it was a natural thing. One doesn't think, you know, promote the woman in the case. One thinks promote the excellent person in the case. But I think it does help being a woman who's sort of, to some extent, come through the system to be on some level, conscious or unconscious, particularly looking out for women in the field and particularly wanting to have their backs and make sure that they progress. 

Lucy: No, I agree. And I think there's a, for me anyway, when I was more junior and, you know, having those first advocacy opportunities. You know, sitting next to someone that I knew was supportive, that kind of had my back throughout that process was really, really important in making me feel confident in what I was doing. And I think that's a really important part of the learning process for junior lawyers as they take on those new opportunities. And it's something that I've always sort of greatly appreciated and been very lucky in the people that I have, you know, second chaired to throughout my career. 

Alison:  Oh we need to turn to you if a really thorny topic arises. So I think it really helps that sort of a sort of non-hierarchical attitude also does help equality and help to sort of let more junior people have opportunities. 

Lucy: No, I agree. Absolutely. So the next question I wanted to ask you is, what do you hope to see in the next five to 10 years for women's representation in international arbitration? 

Alison: Well, this reminds me of an interview that famously Ruth Bader Ginsburg gave, where she was asked once how many women out of nine she wanted to eventually see on the United States Supreme Court. And she said, I think to the interviewer's surprise, she said nine, given that it had been nine men for so long, she thought that was only fair. Now, I wouldn't quite go that far, since I think there will remain a rule for men in arbitration in the future. But I would hope, I would even expect to see in the five to 10 year time period that you're talking about, at least 50% women in legal teams. On tribunals, and in institutional rules. I think that is perfectly achievable, given that women are coming into the legal profession, all branches of the legal profession, in equal numbers. It seems to me that we should be saying, you know, 50-50 should be the norm. And we should come to a point, hopefully, where there isn't a GAR article or something pointing out that there's been an all-female tribunal or an all-female annulment committee. Those are good milestones to note when they happen now, but I'd hope that in that time period, things like that stop being anything that we notice or think about. 

Lucy: No I completely agree you're right we know we we're very used to saying all-male tribunals. I personally have never had an all-female tribunal but it would still be something that felt you know in a very positive way something that felt a little bit new and different and it shouldn't it shouldn't be that way of course it shouldn't be and I you're right I hope that you know by the time I finish my career it's very much the norm and not something to be remarked upon. 

Alison: Yeah, I've never had one. It would feel new and different to me as well. But I really think that in that timescale, we can change that to the point where, or even if not all female, we're having more than one woman in a tribunal. And I do have and have had tribunals, three-person tribunals, which have had two women. That, I think, isn't particularly unusual these days. And so I think that trend, I'm sure, is going to continue, partly because the institutions themselves, who can have a very significant role in the constitution of tribunals in many different circumstances are really pushing this and have really been leading the way, we see this from the statistics, in appointing women to arbitral tribunals. So I think that that trend looks set to continue. 

Lucy: I always think those statistics are really interesting because they show, I mean, pretty much across all the institutions, that it is the institutions that are sort of the most proactive in appointing women, followed by the party appointed arbitrators appointing a president. And actually, the group that perform the worst at appointing women are the parties. You know increasingly what i think is really important is that clients actually are taking a step to say actually we don't want to see all male shortlists from our law firms anymore for candidates for the party appointed arbitrator we want to see some diversity it's important to us as a company or you know as an individual as it may be and that's really changing i think how law firms now approach the process of appointing their arbitrator. 

Alison: Isn't that interesting? I always think that pyramid, where the way is led by the institutions the arbitrator appointees themselves have a decent track record in appointing female presidents, and then it's the parties, as you say. I mean, it's a very disparate – then I suppose it shows that parties to arbitrations are an incredibly disparate group of entities, individuals. Some of them will be big, multinational companies that will have internally their own policies and may be very equality and diversity attuned, and others will not. And so at the end of the day, I think partly sometimes it's because what parties look for, literally and metaphorically, is sort of grey hair and they want to know, has this person done 100 cases? What did they say in them? What are their tendencies? is since the top echelon of arbitrators is still male-dominated, it may be a little while before there are women out there where there's the same amount of data that data-minded parties can crunch in terms of arbitrator selection. We're a query whether that sort of data crunching is a helpful way of going about it. I think it's something that some parties want to be able to do. So I think with the natural passage of time, and many, many women forging fantastic arbitrator careers, producing and contributing to excellent awards. And so the amount of data available on female arbitrators is, you know, it's increasing by the day, by the year. 

Lucy: Yeah, definitely. And I think resources like, and I've mentioned this already on the podcast, resources like the compendium of unicorns. So, you know, I think those are all really helpful just so that, you know, there's a, you know, a compiled list of arbitrators and to cross different specialisms which parties can look at and hope to identify people. 

Alison: I think that was a really good resource and also the institutions run events you know the LCIA I think the ICC does as well where they run events where literally female arbitrators, get to know you know law firms who will be potentially recommending appointments and things so it's a question of sort of I don't think we can think parties are appointing for still a majority of men for any particular reason, other than we just need to think about them making sure that they have the information to know what the options are out there for them and their disputes. 

Lucy: Definitely. Well, thank you so much, Alison, for joining. And it was a pleasure to speak to you as always. 

Alison: Lovely to speak to you. 

Lucy: So next up, I am delighted to be joined by my colleague, Rebeca Mosquera, senior associate in our New York office and the President of ArbitralWomen and the first Hispanic woman to be elected to the role. Thanks so much for joining me today. 

Rebeca: Thank you, Lucy. I am delighted to join you today. 

Lucy: Now, Rebeca, could you just kick us off by telling us a little bit about what ArbitralWomen is and your role there? 

Rebeca: Of course, well, Arbitral Women has been around for over 30 years, and it was officially founded by, you know, visionaries who saw the urgent need for greater gender diversity in international dispute resolution. And honestly, I would like to take a moment to thank our incredible co-founders, Mirèze Philippe and Louise Barrington for laying that foundation. And this has become a global network. Today, Arbitrary Women is more than just an organization. It's a community and a movement. To me, it's a movement. And we offer mentorship programs, networking opportunities, and professional development initiatives designed to increase women's visibility and leadership in arbitration. As the current president, obviously one of my tasks is to lead the organization with an incredible number of professional women who are part of the board. Last time I looked, we have represented about 17 to 18 jurisdictions just on the board, and that's a testament to how global our organization is. And just for us to also be able to have more diverse members in our membership, one of the projects I am most proud about is the ArbitralWomen, recognizing that economic realities vary across regions. We have also introduced a scale membership fee structure based on the World Bank's gross national income classification. So this will ensure that women from all parts of the world can access our network, removing financial barriers to participation. So I'm very happy about that. 

Lucy: Thank you, Rebeca. And I can certainly say how much I've appreciated ArbitralWomen's support over the years and what a great resource it is to be able to see the amazing things that other women in the network are doing. So congratulations on your role. And we're very proud to have you at Reed Smith as the president of ArbitralWomen. 

Rebeca: Thank you, Lucy. That's really kind. 

Lucy: So Rebeca, how important is mentorship for women in law, especially in international arbitration? And how does it accelerate action? 

Rebeca: So mentorship is a game changer and it certainly has been for me. In a field that is as competitive as international arbitration, having someone who has already navigated the challenges can be transformative. It helps women and generally everyone, you know, gain confidence, receive career advice, and access opportunities they might not have otherwise. At ArbitralWomen, we take mentorship seriously. Our mentorship cycle launched this past January, and I'm honored to participate as a mentor. And in fact, my own journey with Arbitral Women's mentorship program began in 2019. I had just return from maternity leave and apply as a mentee, only to be told that they wanted me as a mentor. And in that moment, when your peers recognize your potential before you do, it's incredibly empowering and powerful. And regarding, you know, accelerating action, Lucy, beyond structure mentorship, we build at ArbitralWomen, a global support network, as you mentioned earlier. Whether you are in London, New York, Singapore. Panama, Peru, if you reach out to an ArbitralWomen member, chances are they know someone who can help and we facilitate those connections so that no woman in arbitration and in dispute resolution feels alone in her career journey. 

Lucy: Thank you, Rebecca. And, you know, what role do you think male allies play in driving gender equality in arbitration? And how do you feel that they can better support women in the field? 

Rebeca: So male allies play a critical role in leveling the playing field, in my opinion. You know, many senior decision makers in arbitration are still men. And they have the power to And I think the duty to amplify women's voices, whether by appointing them as lead counsel, arbitrators, recommending them for panels, or ensuring gender balance in speaking engagements. In reality, some of my strongest champions and sponsors have been men. When I, for example, when I received the New York Journal Rising Star Award, I know that one of my mentors and sponsors recommended me. Though he will never admit it. The same when I was included on the AAA ICDR arbitration list, I know that one of my mentors also recommended me, supported me through the entire process. So I'll have to say that, you know, they have been champions and sponsors to me. And allyship also means taking action behind the scenes, right? Just last week, while I was representing ArbitralWomen on Citral Working Group 3, I had private conversations with two male colleagues in the industry, and they share the steps they're taking for gender parity. And for example, one of them mentioned that he had turned down panel spots when women aren't included. They also advocate for their female colleagues in hiring decisions and elevating them and ensuring diversity in their own teams. I, too, for example, have declined speaking engagements where gender balance was not achieved, especially in jurisdictions where parity is possible. And that's where ArbitralWomen actively helps organizers find female speakers. I believe that if we want more women in leadership, we must ensure they are seen and heard. 

Lucy: I completely agree, Rebeca. And I think, you know, one of the other sort of interesting areas where men can be real allies is on arbitrator appointments. So certainly, you know, clients of law firms who push back on receiving all male shortlists, either for a party appointee or for the president, I think that's really important to just shape how lawyers go about putting these shortlists together. And you know we have the resources now you know the compendium of unicorns is is a fantastic resource where people can go and find you know highly qualified highly experienced female arbitrators and consider them for their case it's no longer an excuse that they don't have visibility over you know potential female appointees and so i think that that allyship you know is really important in in a variety of different forms and areas in international arbitration. 

Rebeca: Absolutely agree with you, Lucy. 

Lucy: Well, from my end, Rebeca, you know, thank you for all that you do. And as I said, we are very proud here at Reed Smith to have you as part of our firm. 

Rebeca: Thank you, Lucy, for those questions. I also would like to take a moment to appreciate you for always elevating so many women, both within and beyond the firm, and for always being a crown straightener. So now I am delighted to be joined by a remarkable guest, Natalia Mori. Natalia is a highly respected dispute resolution attorney based in Lima, Peru, with extensive experience in international arbitration and commercial litigation. She has played a pivotal role in advising clients on complex disputes across Latin America and is actively involved in initiatives aim at promoting diversity and inclusion in arbitration. So before we dive into our discussion, I want to take a moment to reflect on the current landscape of arbitration in Latin America. So over the past decade, the region has made significant strides in solidifying arbitration as a preferred mechanism for resolving cross-border disputes. We've also seen the modernization of arbitration laws, the growing role of regional arbitral institutions, and an increasing number of Latin American arbitrators being appointed in international cases. However, you know, challenges persist, especially the underrepresentation of women in key decision-making roles. And it's been highlighted the need for, I think, greater regional collaboration and efforts to close that gap. I mean, as we've seen it, Latin America is not just a user of arbitration anymore. It is increasingly shaping the field. And yet, despite these advancements, women remain significantly underrepresented in arbitral appointments, leadership positions, and sometimes even mayor case teams. So that brings us to today's conversation. And Natalia, I want to ask you, you've been a strong advocate for increasing women's representation in arbitration. If you could share with us any initiatives or projects you are currently working on to advance this goal. 

Natalia: Yes, of course. Well, I started working on this primarily when I first joined ArbitralWomen six years ago. The work that we do in Latin America is mainly focused in increasing the representation of women, both as arbitrators and as litigants, not lawyers. And currently in Peru, where I'm based, We are working together with all law firms interested in this same goal and other arbitral women members in different initiatives. First, we have the Directory of Women Arbitrators, which is a tool that we created that unifies in one document the name and the experience of all the women that are registered in the main arbitration centers in Peru, which is very important and it simplifies the job of law firms when deciding who to appoint or who to suggest arbitrator. And this covers also international arbitrators that are registered in these centers. So it is both for domestic and international arbitration. Another initiative that we're working on is that we're working along with major law firms in the region to promote the information regarding the gender diversity in their litigation teams. We want to promote this information that we think is key for some clients that consider this strong factor when deciding who to work with. Another initiative that we're working on is to build alliances with universities, with law schools in Peru, to organize, to help them organize events focused on international and domestic arbitration, where women are participating as a speaker. 

Rebeca: Natalia, that's fantastic. And as president of ArbitralWomen, I am honored that our organization has members like you and the other ladies in Lima who are obviously giving women more opportunities in dispute resolution in the region. And it's inspiring to hear about these efforts, especially as you mentioned, knowing that increasing representation requires, in my opinion, both institutional and grassroots level change. But beyond specific initiatives like the ones you've mentioned, what do you believe or what you've seen are the most critical actions that should be prioritized to break barriers and create meaningful long-lasting change for women in arbitration? 

Natalia: I think that question depends on the region that you are focusing on. So in Latin America, I think the priorities are different than in maybe the U.S. or Europe or Asia. And in Latin America, we still have a lot of work to do with promoting these global initiatives that are very well known internationally as the Equal Representation Sledge. I think in creating concepts regarding the importance of having this equality in arbitration, in the field of arbitration. I think this is a first step that we are a bit behind still. That involves the work particularly from the public sector, like institutions, and also the private sector, science and law firm. Another action I think is really important is to take small and simple actions depending on the different roles that we are involved in. For example, if we work in a law firm, we are required to suggest arbitrators whenever we have a case. Then we have to ask us, if we want to help really make a change, we have to suggest or keep in mind that we need to suggest at least one woman as a candidate for a trader. I think this is a simple and concrete step. 

Rebeca: I couldn't agree more, Natalia. Like you've mentioned, sometimes these small actions really create ripple effects. As always, it's very nice to see you. Thank you so much for sharing your insights today, especially thank you for being such a valuable, committed, and active member of ArbitralWomen, expanding the mission of our organization throughout the region, especially in Lima, Peru. Your work is truly inspiring, and I appreciate you taking the time to be part of this conversation. 

Natalia: Thank you so much, Rebeca, for the invitation. 

Rebeca: Our next speaker is an incredible friend of mine. We have been friends for about 25 years and counting. It's been a joy to witness her journey, and I'm beyond excited to welcome Ana Irene Delgado. Ana Irene is a force in international diplomacy and politics. She is currently Panama's ambassador to the Organization of American States, the youngest ambassador in the OAS today. She previously served as Panama's ambassador to the United Kingdom and permanent representative to the International Maritime Organization, where she was elected vice president of the assembly. She also represented Panama as ambassador to Ireland, Iceland, and Norway. In politics, Ana Irene made history as the first woman elected to represent her circuit in Panama's national assembly. She has championed initiatives that impact women and indigenous communities, working closely with Emberá women leaders and advocating for infrastructure and economic development projects that uplift entire regions. Beyond her diplomatic and political career, Ana Irene is an accomplished athlete and a global leader in sports governance, holding leadership roles in international fencing and modern pentathlon federations. Ana Irene, welcome to the podcast. 

Ana: Thank you very much, Rebeca. The honor is entirely mine. I have admired you since we graduated together, how you have followed the path of being an accomplished professional, but also forging a beautiful family. And I'm very, very happy to share some ideas that might be helpful for other women professionals or other professionals that want to jump in your career, which is incredible and awesome, Rebeca. So the pleasure is all mine. 

Rebeca: Thank you so much, Ana Irene. I really appreciate that. And honestly, I am absolutely excited that we're here together today. So let's jump right in. Go to my first question. Over the years, right? We've seen growing momentum toward gender equity, particularly in international spaces, right? Like arbitration, politics, and diplomacy. In your view, what has truly worked to accelerate change in these fields? 

Ana: That's a very interesting question, because let me tell you an anecdote. We are 10 days to go to elect the new Secretary General of the Organization of American States. And can you believe that there have been, this is a very old organization. And we have not had yet any women as SG and as SG Alternate. And this is something that we have been discussing in several forums. How is that possible with so many capable women in diplomacy, in different fields of international law, of international relations? And as we speak, we have not had that position. The same happened with the United Nations. We have had not a woman yet. And I think the United Nations General Secretary elections are next year. Based on that, I have identified some key factors, which are exactly eight, which I think have contributed to change somehow or accelerate the change in international arbitration over the years. I will mention as the number one, technology and digitalization. I think that after the COVID-19 pandemic, it further accelerated this trend and all the integration of technology in international arbitration, such as virtual hearings. Electronic filing systems, powered AI, powered tools for document management, have been a very important role in accelerating change. Number two, institutional reforms. We have identified international arbitration institutions such as the International Chamber of Commerce, London Court of International Arbitration, Singapore International Arbitration Center, have been revising and updating their roles to address current changes. Three, we've identified investor state dispute settlement reforms. They have been growing security over the ISDS system, especially in the context of public policy and state sovereignty. community. Fourth, increased focus on diversity and inclusion. A push for greater diversity and the appointment of arbitration, including gender, regional, and professional diversity, has led to balance and this global arbitration diversity have accelerated changes. Five, efforts to address cost and time delays. This is very important because cost and time inefficiency have long been challenges in international arbitration. In response, we have had, for example, the establishment of the fast-track arbitration in various jurisdictions that helped speed up the process significantly. Six, growing popularity of arbitration in emerging markets. This is, of course, Asia, Africa, Latin America. They have been expanded in a very important scope. And there are institutions in this region that have adopted internationally recognized arbitration rules, making it easier for parties from different parts of the world to engage in arbitration. We also have cross-border collaboration and treaty development, such as the well-known UNCITRAL, the New York Convention on the Recognition and Enforcement of Foreign Arbitral Awards, and many others. And last but not least, public awareness and educational initiatives and activities. The increased awareness of educational and arbitration are processed, such as conferences, publications. You, Rebeca, are a model of this because I've seen you very active participating in events all over the world. And in this role, I think it played an increasingly important number of professionals with expertise in international arbitration. So I think that these factors have helped shape and generate changes in international arbitration, making it more efficient. Accessible, and globally harmonized method of dispute resolution. Of course, we can continue and talk about this topic for very, very long. But these are the factors that I've identified as the most important as we speak. 

Rebeca: Those are such powerful perspectives. And you are absolutely right. I think that special technology kind of catapulted the entire, you know, access of women to have more equity in these international spaces as, you know, in comparison to before. And your perspective on what you mentioned about the United Nations, at the OAS. And the process of selecting the new Secretary General, I think that that will really signal other institutions and globally how important is the role of women into the international space. The real challenge is, I think, ensuring that women in general, but also women from diverse backgrounds, aren't just present, but are given meaningful leadership roles where they can drive change. So how do we make that happen? How can we ensure that women, especially those from underrepresented backgrounds, are included and empowered in international leadership? 

Ana: Yes, that's another very interesting question and an interesting way to look at it. But there is also the ways of sponsorship that we have seen in many of the international organizations I've worked with. For example, when I was in London as a Panamanian permanent representative to the IMO, there were, you know, shipping in general and maritime industry is a very male-oriented profession. But we have seen day by day more women excelling in this. And they have been participating in several, you know, mentorship programs that have been also been sponsored. Because remember, there are women also that come from smaller countries. But they have excelled because they come from a very, very well-known maritime industry. I'm talking about, for example, the biggest competition that Panama has in terms of flag. You know, women coming from Singapore, from the Caribbean islands. From Liberia, from Marshall Islands, and so forth. And I've seen them excel, you know, taking advantage of this program. Also, there is an important point that I want to say that is, for example, to be supportive of flexible environments. Women that come from diverse backgrounds face challenges with balancing family responsibilities. And I think you can be a witness of this, Rebeca, because being, for example, a mother and having a full-time job, you know, is not easy compared to with the flexibility that a man in your same position will have. So I think, for example, parental leave, to ensure that parental leave policies are inclusive and supportive for both men and women is extremely important. I also think we should promote even more inclusive leadership in decision-making, in supporting networks of women. I think in something that a very powerful and a very well-known woman told me very long time ago, and she said, when a woman is successful. Every woman is successful. There is space for all. Another aspect is champion role models and visibility, how we can highlight success stories. For example, what you're doing from your role, I think it's extremely important to celebrate achievement of women from diverse backgrounds that have succeeded in leadership roles. I think we should increase representation of women that are visibly included in leadership positions. I think that that really helps. I also think we should encourage gender responsive policies in international institutions. We were talking about OAS and we were talking about UN before. These are multilateral spaces in which, of course, we have representation of every nation in the case of the OIS, a regional representation where we also have Countries that act as observers, like the European Union, Holy See, Italy, and so forth. And I have to tell you, at the OAS, most of these women ambassador representatives are starting to be more and more women, and I think this is extremely important. And last but not least, I think it's extremely important to build global networks to support. I have been related to several global alliances and partnerships that I think encourage even more women to be included in these spaces. There are international advocacy groups, organizations that, for example, the Women's International Network, the International Federation of Women Lawyers, which I'm sure you are aware of. And I think all of this is extremely important. When we foster culture, Rebeca, and equity and inclusion is essential, regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, for all women to feel empowered. That we do by including languages, different languages and opportunities for development. We should also encourage women to take risks and lead. It is not easy for somebody that is being a mother of young children to risk their home to come out and work. And I think that when we risk that and lead and see that we're making some change and having results, I think that is very important to take into consideration. And as I said, we should ensure that women's representation involves dismantling structural barriers. Of course there are barriers, but I think if we address the bias, if we provide platforms for women to drive, this is a really inclusive leadership and this will make stronger motivation for women in more equitable international landscapes. 

Ana: Ana Irene, I couldn't agree more with you. You've touched on so many great points. We definitely need to turn down the barriers for women in general, for women with diverse backgrounds. It is difficult to, in general, to be a professional woman and have all kinds of other responsibilities without a decent support system. And on top of that, all the barriers that you have to face. So I really thank you for pointing all that out. It's just incredible because your journey is proof, Ana Irene, that women can lead at the highest levels in diplomacy, in politics, in sports, being, you know, the great family person that I know you are. You adore your family, you're always there for them. And at the same time, the next thing I know you are in a plane to India, to London, to continue working on the things that you are passionate about. So your commitment to breaking barriers is nothing short of inspiring. And I know that so many women listening today will walk away feeling more empowered to step into leadership themselves. So thank you so much for joining us and for being such a champion for women's leadership. 

Ana: Thank you, Rebeca. And as I said, all women and also men listening to this today might understand the importance of inclusion, the importance of supportiveness and of empathy. This is a word that I've been using a lot lately because you have to really feel what the other person is feeling. And, you know, we come all from different backgrounds and we have all different personal situations. But if you feel welcome, if you feel that warmth, I think that really help us all. So I'm really, really grateful that we're doing this. You count on me for this and for any other initiative. I feel extremely proud and honored to call you a friend and a Panamanian friend that is leaving the name of our country, because wherever you go, you are Rebeca Mosquera from Panama. And I think coming from a small country in America is extremely powerful and important. 

Rebeca: Thank you, Ana Irene. Same to you. 

Ana: Thank you very much. 

Rebeca: And to all our listeners, happy International Women's Day. Keep pushing boundaries, lifting each other up, and making your voices heard. 

Outro: Arbitral Insights is a Reed Smith production. Our producers are Ali McCardell and Shannon Ryan. For more information about Reed Smith's global international arbitration practice, email arbitralinsights@reedsmith.com. To learn about the Reed Smith Arbitration Pricing Calculator, a first-of-its-kind mobile app that forecasts the cost of arbitration around the world, search Arbitration Pricing Calculator on reedsmith.com or download for free through the Apple and Google Play app stores. You can find our podcast on podcast streaming platforms, reedsmith.com, and our social media accounts at Reed Smith LLP. 

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