Intro: Hi, I'm John Iino and I'm Iveliz Crespo. Welcome to the Reed Smith podcast Inclusivity Included: Powerful Personal Stories. In each episode of this podcast, our guests will share their personal stories, passions and challenges, past and present all with the goal of bringing people together and learning more about others. You might be surprised by what we all have in common, inclusivity included.

Iveliz: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. As always, I'm your host Iveliz Crespo and today we're joined by a special guest co-host and a very special guest. I'm proud to introduce Jonathan Andrews who would join as co-host for today's episode. Jonathan is an associate in Reed Smith's Global Entertainment and Media Industry Group, which is based in the London office and is a member of our disability inclusion group called LEADRS. Welcome, Jonathan. Such a pleasure to have you here today.

Jonathan: Thank you very much Iveliz. Um It's really great to be here today and just to really champion and discuss some of the diversity and equity and inclusion work that we'll be doing and indeed the others that we support are doing and to that end, it's great to have a very spectacular and uh very well accomplished guest here. Uh Today, we've got Miranda Brawn, who is the founder and president of The Miranda Brawn Diversity Leadership Foundation of which I am also a proud trustee and also is currently a senior visiting fellow at Oxford University. Uh Being involved with the Brawn Review looking at diversity, equity and inclusion across business and the professional world. Miranda is also an advisor for various different organizations on uh how to improve diversity equity and inclusion. Um and many other things, but um in the interest of keeping it short, I should not go into all of them, but Miranda certainly does an awful lot for the call. So it's very, very good to have you here today. Miranda.

Miranda: Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here.

Jonathan: Thank you. So I guess what we really want to do. Uh Miranda is just sort of chat to you a bit about work that you've done in this area. Um and how you got here and maybe also where you sort of see it going, going next. So just to kick off, it would be great to understand a bit more about how you came to be recognized for your great work in this field. And would you be able to tell us a bit about your own journey into the DEI space?

Miranda: Yeah. So I've been involved in the diversity equity and inclusion space for over two decades now and this stemmed when I initially started my investment banking career. So in terms of my career background, I've been an investment banker, I've been a hedge fund sales trader and a senior banking lawyer, mostly within the investment banking fields. And so it literally in terms of my diversity work, it started by attending diversity networking events for a German investment bank. And then I joined a US investment bank and I became a little bit more active. And I eventually, by the time I hit my mid to late twenties, I was chairing a black networking group. And so that was my first sort of active involvement in the diversity space. And one of the things I did when I worked with this large US Investment Bank was I launched a mentoring program.

I then also launched a professional development program to help other employees from black heritage backgrounds to proceed and progress within that organization. At the time, I was one of I think four or five vice presidents who came from a or who had black heritage. And so this was long before executive director was even a level. It was you were a VP and then you shot up to MD. So clearly, times have changed over the past 20 plus years. But that was, that was how I got involved with regards to diversity. It started with my networking resource group and then we slowly started to broaden out with other investment banks and do joint events and, and then I just started to get involved with other sectors and then I started to talk to other people across the legal industry across STEM and, and then the work just steadily starts to grow. Clearly.

I then launched the Miranda Brawn Diversity Leadership Foundation seven years ago in January 2016. And we will, I, I know we will talk a bit more about that later on. Um But that's, that's pretty much how I became recognized and how I got started. It also involved lots of speaking. So as my career was progressing and as I was rising up the ranks, I was then asked to share my career journey to help inspire other employees from other diverse backgrounds. And so that's also how my public speaking work came into play, especially within the diversity, equity and inclusion space.

Jonathan: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you.

Iveliz: Yeah, that's amazing. One of the things that I, I think is really important, especially when we're talking about, you know, different dimensions of diversity, including things like social mobility is representation, right? Is seeing other people who look like you and have similar lived experiences than you really being successful in how they navigate these spaces, particularly space that weren't designed really with us in mind, right? So I want, you know, circle back to the, the Miranda Brawn Diversity Leadership Foundation. I'm curious if you could share with our, our listeners a little bit more about what the focus of that foundation is and, you know, highlight a little bit to us. How did that come about?

Miranda: Definitely. So I guess let's start with how did it come about and then we can progress on to, you know, the idea and, and what's, and what's the mission it, it, it came about because for many years prior to launching in January 2016, I would have conversations with colleagues, diversity activists and say, look, the conversation on diversity is around gender. We really need to start, you know, pushing forward the race diversity conversation. Whenever I used to talk to anyone about diversity, it just used to, it just used to be the gender conversation. I think from the work that I had from, you know, decade plus at this US Investment Bank and, and, and other banks that I joined thereafter.

I just thought that we were getting left behind there and I was finding that the race diversity conversation was the elephant in the room. Everyone was too scared to talk about it. I had no idea why. Well, to be honest, I had an idea why. But for me, I just felt like I wanted to join forces with other people who were passionate about diversity and wanted to increase that across all strands. But everyone was saying to me, I think we need to focus on gender at the moment. That's where it's at or, you know, I don't want to be the only one in my organization talking about this or I think, you know, to my white friends and acquaintances in the city, it was like, I really think this is something that needs to be led by people of color. So I just thought, ok, no one really wants to push through this race diversity initiative and bring it to the forefront. So I'm going to launch one scholarship and it was called the Miranda Brawn Diversity Leadership Scholarship. And it was going to be self funded by myself and I was going to offer mentoring, work experience, and funding. And at the time, there was no other scholarship around that was offering this, they were only offering funding and I for many years was mentoring lots of the next generation. I was involved in lots of interviews, giving talks and I was also one of the first women of color on the trading floor in the 1990s. And so for me, I just thought, look, I'm going to do this one thing then at least this is me actively also doing something.

So I'm not just sharing my inspirational journey. I'm not just doing interviews in these publications. I'm not just part of my internal networking group, but I'm actually feeling like I'm actively doing something. And so that was why I decided to launch this. But it, but the charity organically grew because it was just supposed to be one scholarship. And I mentioned it to some of my friends in the city who are, you know, one was the former global chair of a large international law firm and he supported it straight away. I also spoke to my old law school, the University of Law, they supported it straight away as well. So I had lots of founding partners who said this is a great initiative like we will back this. And then I started to have money coming through and I knew I had to have a separate bank account. So that's how the charity was founded. Now the mission of the Miranda Brawn Diversity Leadership Foundation, which is now a UK registered charity was to eliminate the diversity, equity and inclusion gaps in and out of the professional workplace. It's also to build confidence, organize networking opportunities, but also to help our next generation of diverse leaders to become a success within their education and their future careers. And that's the mission of the charity through the Brawn Review which we will be discussing later on. This also includes the sustainability gaps as well.

Jonathan: Thank you, Miranda. It's really great to um hear, you know, there about uh I think particularly in terms of, you know, nobody kind of being interested in this and actually taking it on yourself. And sometimes that really is what we have to do to be, be the change that we want to see, to make a difference as you, as you say. Um and then hopefully inspire others to also kind of step up to the plate. You have spoken a little bit about this uh already, but I would be interested in a bit more. So if could you tell us a bit more about the aims and objectives of your charity, the Miranda Brawn Diverse Leadership Foundation, but also the successes that you've had so far.

Miranda: Definitely. So I've, I've mentioned the mission. It's to eliminate the diversity, equity and inclusion gaps, including sustainability gaps now within the workforce. But it's also through education and the empowerment of our future diverse leaders. But the reason why I I did this and the mission behind this is because there were lots of initiatives within the workforce within the professional workforce. Once you had entered the city, once you had entered the organization, and I felt like if we have a pipeline gap, if there's a reason why we don't have enough diverse leaders, diverse future leaders in the city, in these professional organizations, what can we be doing to increase that? And that's why we also set up the Miranda Brawn Diversity Leadership Foundation because we reach out to those in schools before they even start the universe education. We're reaching out to them to help increase their inspirations and their aspirations so that they can inspire and believe that they can become a lawyer, they can become, you know, a uh an engineer, a banker, whatever it is that they feel that might have been out of reach, we go into those schools, we go into these universities and we help to raise those aspirations. But also what we're doing is helping them to help themselves. Because essentially by the time a lot of them enter the workplace, you know, I, I'm hoping that I'm retired. Well, I'm sort of semi retired, but I'm hoping I'm retired and it's up to them to actually continue with this, continue with the work. And if they start the work while they're in their schools and universities, then that should hopefully, the aim is and the mission is that, that should hopefully help to close this diversity gap a lot quicker.

Now, what are the successes of the Miranda Brawn Diversity Leadership Foundation so far? We've had quite a lot actually, I mean, we've launched our five year strategy last year and that is to help up to 10,000 young people and raise up to £1 million by 2026. Now, to date, we have 100% of our young diverse leaders who have increased confidence. We have given out nearly 300 educational scholarships. And we also made UK history on the 16th of October 2016 when we launched the UK's first Diversity Leadership lecture of its kind. We also two years ago launched the UK's First Black Women on Boards initiative because we acknowledged that even though there are so many initiatives to help with gender and to help with women within the board room. When you look at current research and data, and I shared this at the Miranda Brawn Diversity Leadership annual lecture on Saturday. You know, a few days ago on the 22nd of October 2022 1 of the things that have been highlighted is that those that come from a black, especially a black Caribbean background, but also African background, they're getting left behind when it comes to the boardroom, especially women. And so that's why we launched the UK's first Black Women on Boards initiative. But we've also got 92 when we first started the statistics and tracking the impact reporting, those that had completed their studies were 87%. We've just recently updated our data and that has increased to 92% of those who have completed their educational studies successfully and have gone on to achieve their professional goals. So we're nearing that 100%.

Iveliz: That's fantastic. Miranda. I know you've mentioned a lot of the successes that you've had. I'm curious though, I think, you know, in doing this DEI work, I've seen certainly that while there are many supporters, there's also some pushback that we receive. And I'm kind of curious to know how has your initiatives, how have, how have they been received?

Miranda: I would say the majority of the initiatives that we have launched, they have been received with open arms and it literally has been a celebration of the innovation and also, um you know, just even the confidence to launch something like this. And so with regards to the pushback, I think one of the things that I highlight and I mentioned this in the annual lecture on Saturday is that this is something where we've also got to make sure that we have, you know, our white male middle class allies in the room as well and that they are speaking up about this and that they are talking to their fellow counterparts about this as well. So where we do get pushed back and where people are getting uncomfortable and where people are feeling like, well, does that mean you want me out and you want to replace me with a young diverse person?

The answer to that is no, that isn't, that isn't what this is about. This is about creating an equal and equitable platform so that everyone, regardless of their gender, their race, their disability, their religion, their sexual orientation, their faith, their age, social mobility, social, so on, regardless of someone's background, they should be able to have the same opportunities as someone who comes or who might be a middle class, middle aged white male. And so that's all we're saying here. And I, I think it's sitting down and what I tend to do is sit down and actually have those conversations, you know, and this is difficult what we're trying to achieve here. We are changing mindsets, we are changing cultures of organizations and this isn't something that can be achieved overnight. And so one of the things I always say is, look, we've got to get comfortable with being uncomfortable and it's been open to have these conversations where our ideal future workforce and what the workplace should look like.

There are people that might not understand it fully and they will be uncomfortable and as a result that will come through as though they're challenging. Now, look, there are some people who are just wrong and they don't want this. They, they don't want an equitable and equal society for their own reasons, which probably aren't favorable. But I think for the majority of the people in the workplace through the and I talk to so many different people, I think, I think it's the understanding point and it's having those types of conversations and one of the key things and that's one of the things we succeeded at at our most recent annual lecture is that we had people from all different backgrounds, all different races, all different age groups and so on in that space, who are open to listening and learning. And I think listening is the key thing here. Rather than listening to respond or be defensive. It's just being open and actually thinking, well, hold on, maybe I can learn something here. And that's when the reverse mentoring comes into play. Because through our Black Women on Boards initiative, one of the other things we've done is we've launched a reverse, we've always done some form of reverse mentoring, but we launch an official reverse mentoring program. And this is where our first scholarship winner of the Miranda Brawn Black Women on Boards and scholarship.

We teamed her up with a white middle class male who's a CEO of a bank. And he has learned so much through that reverse mentoring. She's in her second year at Cambridge studying English. She was be able, she was able to actually share with him her insights in terms of what that organization can be doing, but equally, she was able to learn from him. And it was just a good honest dialogue. And I think that's where we've got to get to, we've got to get to a place where defenses come down and it's just good open listening, followed by action.

Jonathan: No, absolutely. And I, I think that a lot of what you've spoke about them is particularly important in terms of providing that those discussions between maybe different generations of reverse mentoring and really furthering that conversation on, on DEI now. Absolutely. Um now Reed Smith is obviously very pleased to be supporting the Miranda Brawn Diversity Leadership Foundation's Scholarships program. And I was very pleased just a few days ago to be there for the annual lecture and to see the, you know, Reed Smith, um neurodiversity and disability scholarship being um you know, given out for the first time. And so in light of that, I'd be really interested to, to know how do you think partnerships between organizations uh can help to advance DEI?

Miranda: Well, I, I think, and I want to say thank you so much to Reed Smith for supporting the Miranda Brawn Diversity Leadership Foundation in particular, our first neurodiversity including disability scholarship. So, you know, what can organizations be doing well, things like what Reed Smith is doing by, you know, sponsoring a scholarship program through cash donations, but not only that also with volunteers. So for example, Jonathan, you are not only a trustee on our board, but you also mentor scholarship winners, you mentor future leaders who want to be future lawyers or even those that might come from a similar diverse background as yourself. And so I think having organizations who are able to share their resources, whether it's cash donations, time donations, expertise, donations, whatever it is that they're able to, to do, to give back all of this plays its part to help advance the diversity, equity and inclusion agenda in terms of what we're trying to achieve here.

Jonathan: Yeah, absolutely. And I very much um very much agree and I say I was very pleased to be part of that partnership and to kind of collaborate with um with the Miranda Brawn Diverse Leadership Foundation on its work. And indeed, on that point, are there any interesting projects coming up for the charity?

Miranda: Oh, yes, there sure, I mean, we've just mentioned we've had our most successful annual lecture event to date, which was at the University of Oxford Keble College. And that's one of the things. So we've mentioned that I'm a senior visiting fellow there. And one of the things that we're doing is the Brawn Review and this is an independent report, a research report that I we are working with, with the Miranda Brawn. So it's in partnership with the Miranda Brawn Diversity Leadership Foundation, but it's also been backed by various global organizations including Reed Smith. And this is on board room, sustainability, inclusion and corporate governance. And we're very excited about this and that's what this year's annual lecture event was all about. It was really giving the background around why are we doing this research report? And it's very much needed. When we look at current research reports, whether it's the Parker Review, the McGregor-Smith Review, McKinsey Review. It's all based around the diversity aspect and closing that gap and that's so important. But what we want to do at the Miranda Broad Diversity Leadership Foundation is progress that conversation onto the inclusion and the system sustainability part and it starts from the board room so it can filter down. And so, you know, we're all very excited at the foundation regarding this review and this research. And I will also be working with fellow professors and fellows and academic staff across many different sectors and across many different colleges at Oxford University. So watch this space, we will be publishing this report in 2023. And so if anyone within the diversity or ESG sustainability space would like to be part of this and would like to be part of the survey or the in depth interviews that we will be conducting, then please do reach out because this is something that will be making a very big difference. And there is nothing like that out there at the moment in terms of what we're working on with this research report.

Iveliz: That's wonderful. And I certainly suggest anyone that's able to participate in that that's listening in. Certainly do reach out to Miranda to participate in that. I know we're coming close to the end of our time. But I want to make sure you have an opportunity to share any last key takeaways that you would like to leave our listeners with as they're listening to this podcast.

Miranda: Yes. I think the last message and this is one of the things that I said in my lecture on Saturday was, you know, it's just important. We, we can talk about statistics and research and we've got to do this and let's mentor and, you know, we're always looking for volunteers and, you know, making and donations, et cetera and reach out to us if you want to be part of the, the research and the Miranda Brawn Diversity Leadership Foundation. But ultimately, it's, let's just be kind to each other. It sounds corny, but it's so basic. Just let's be kind to each other. And if, if everyone listening to this podcast can help just one person, one young diverse person or a diverse person within their workplace, then that is helping us reach the goal of eliminating the diversity, equity, inclusion and sustainability gaps in and out of the workforce.

Iveliz: Fantastic. And Miranda, thank you so much for joining Jonathan. Thank you so much for coordinating this and for joining as a guest co-host, it has been an absolute privilege to have you on. So, thank you so much for all your work to advance diversity, equity inclusion across different industries, really, really awesome stuff and really privileged to have you here.

Miranda: Thank you so much.

Jonathan: Thank you, Miranda.

Outro: Inclusivity included is a Reed Smith production. Our producer is Ali McCardell. This podcast is available on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google, Play, Stitcher, PodBean and reedsmith.com.

Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney client relationship. Nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions or comments made by any external guest speaker are not to be attributed to Reed Smith LLP or its individual lawyers.

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