Transcript:

Intro: Hi, I'm John Iino and I'm Iveliz Crespo. Welcome to the Reed Smith podcast Inclusivity Included: Powerful Personal Stories. In each episode of this podcast. Our guests will share their personal stories, passions and challenges, past and present, all with the goal of bringing people together and learning more about others. You might be surprised by what we all have in common, inclusivity included. 

Iveliz: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the podcast. This is Iveliz Crespo and I'm joined by John Iino, our co-host. Hi, John. 

John: Hey, Iveliz. Good to see you today. 

Iveliz: Good to see you as well. And you folks are in for a treat today because we have one of my favorite people joining the podcast. today. We are joined by Wilsar Johnson. She is a seasoned social media and brand development professional specializing in organic growth who uses her experience to help clients succeed on social media and meet the organization and brand goals. Wilsar is currently the vice president of social media and brand development at SKDK. But before joining SKDK, Wilsar served as the Director of Digital Strategy at the Congressional Black Caucus, as well as the Digital creative Director at the Office of Senator Sheldon Whitehouse and also served as the Director of Digital Strategy at the House Judiciary Committee. So Wilsar has a long history and has serviced many different clients across many different industries, helping them sell right and tell their stories organically on social media. And that's really going to be the focus of what we're talking today about. It's really about that focus. Another thing I'd like to add is Wilsar is originally from Freetown, Sierra Leone was raised in my hometown of Camden, New Jersey and also is a graduate of Georgian Court University, which is the listeners may know is also my alma mater. So, Wilsar and I have gone to high school together as well as college and it is wonderful to have her here to showcase her skills as well as her commitment and passion to equity. Welcome, Wilsar. 

Wilsar: Thank you. Thank you Iveliz, I'm really happy to be here and, and hello John, how are you? 

John: Fantastic. 

Iveliz: So, Wilsar. So one of the things that we always discuss on our podcast are our guests powerful personal stories. It's a way for us to highlight exemplary individuals and to add faces to the many DEI champions that exist in this world. Now, I know that I've known you for over 15 years and I've always said to you that you are one of the most hard working people I have ever met. You have this drive that makes you great at almost everything that you do. But for our listeners that may not be familiar, I really want us to get to the heart of who Wilsar is. You know, what is your story? You know, what drives you to engage in this work? 

Wilsar: Thanks so much, Iveliz. And I'm really glad to be here and like you said, I've known you for most of my life and it's a pleasure and a privilege to get to be your friend. And that question is beautiful because what drives me every single day motivate me to wake up and do the work that I do is people and it is so obvious, right? It is, it's people make things, people create things, people change things. What motivates me are people who wake up and care. People who wake up and know that it's gonna be a rough day and may not go as well as planned, but you're gonna do the best you can to add value in whatever that you do. What motivates me is the fact that I have seen death more than once, maybe three times in my life as a war survivor. And I know that anything is possible because I don't take for granted the breath I take every single day. What motivates me are the people I get to work with the organizations I get to add value to and be sincere and honest in the work that they do. I will be a disservice to them if I am insincere and inauthentic in the way that I approach the work that I do for them. And I think that's what um makes them come back to me and say, Wilsar we love what you did for us. And so what motivate me are people, people waking up every day in this hard time and making it happen for them and seeing the lights at the end of the tunnel every single day and going back to bed with uh with peace of mind with the next day not knowing what's gonna happen. People wake me up, people invigorate me and people like you guys here are the reason why it's all worth it. 

John: I love that. You know, your your powerful personal story Wilsar, you know, I I think about it as DEI professionals and you know, our audience includes a lot of people who are very passionate about DEI and its cause and its mission. And exactly like you say is that, you know, at the end of the day, what's the most rewarding for us? It's the people, right? It's the people who care, our audience who cares, the people that we serve. And I know that in, in, in the work that we do, sometimes it could be challenging, it could be exhausting, but always focusing on like you do, you know, being a war survivor and everything you've accomplished and overcome, you’re focused on, on, on the people and that's what gets us through every single day. So I, I really, really appreciate your perspective. 

Wilsar: Thank you very much. I appreciate that. 

Iveliz: So, you know, we'll start, you, you've mentioned that, you know, what motivates you is your background and your passion, right? For connection and for being authentic into making sure that you know what's out there and what's populating the social media and what's, what's being put out on the web really is authentic, right? Because it does, it does a disservice to the audience that are tuning into that brand, it does a disservice to the brand if those stories aren't authentic and it's, and it's not going to be successful, right? So I think that's really, really powerful. I think one of the curious things I have, you could have gone into so many different fields and, and I know that you and I have shared that, you know, I think if our parents could have had it their way, we'll both be in the medical profession. Um But how did you decide to go into digital marketing and brand development? And as a backstory to that is I know that when you went into this industry working in Congress, this really didn't exist, right? And so you had to create this industry yourself. And I want to know, you know, what was it about this particular industry that really drove you to it that made you decide this is what I want to do when there is no model. There is no footprint. I'm just going to create it. 

Wilsar: Oh, that's amazing. Thank you. I'm I'm laughing because it is ridiculous. And you think about it and say out loud like this didn't exist before. My poor African parents were just like, what, what are you doing? And you're right. My background is in biology is in medical sciences. I was prepped and primed to go to medical school. You know, we had cadavers, we opened the bodies up, we saw everything and I went to college and I was a pre-med major, but I realized that I wasn't following my passion. I wasn't following my story. I was living a story of my parents who love me and want to protect me because we came to this country with nothing and they wanna make sure their Children are safe and they want to make sure we enter a space, a dedicated job security, which is the medical field. But while I was seeking my passion, I found out that I was a curious person. I'm a creative person. And when I first got to the hill, I was an intern to, to congress, I was an intern. And prior to that I use social media to, you know, to communicate like every college student in back then. But I realized that all my friends were online, you know, everyone I kind of knew, you know, on Facebook back then or myspace or Twitter or Instagram. And, but yeah, when I was interning in Congress for a congressperson, they weren't still, they weren't talking to the people I knew. The people I knew were on the internet, but they were still writing snail mail. USPS mail, which is really important, you know, but you were missing a huge chunk of demographic of constituents. So my curiosity, like everything else got the best of me. I started Googling, I started YouTubing and I'm like, well, I like, I know people, I know what people like. I know what looks good. I know how to message things because naturally I'm something I'm hopefully good at. I had this confidence in me to go to the congressman. And I say, hey, I can help you again, intern out of college, I can help you reach the audience because at the moment, President Obama was using social media, he just won the first election, you know, historic election using social media to drive young people. And I'm a young, I was a young person. I still am and everyone that I knew were young, my age were also on the internet, but these members of Congress were not talking to those people because they weren't voters. And I saw that, well, if they're not voters yet, they could be voters in a couple of years and we can start engaging them now. So I just started using that space to communicate what the their priorities were. And my curiosity, like everything else in my life. I didn't think I do it because I'm curious, I was chasing my passion and I realized that I didn't have to do that anymore. I can just be curious and through curiosity, I found that I really enjoy messaging and marketing. But I also realized that I didn't want to write op-eds or press releases. I like to have discussions, conversations and that that's what the spaces for. So I, my first boss, my first official boss, Congresswoman Bonnie Watson Coleman, the first black woman to elected into Congress ever, which is embarrassing, but that's what it was. She trusted me. I took her, I butchered up her entire presence. She was a freshman meaning that she had no presence yet or a huge national presence. Yet. She came to the Congress for the first time, hiring me to write her mail for her to her constituents. And I basically built her entire presence for her on social media from video producing to video editing, to photography, to graphic design, to message curation, to live streaming. I did it all. I can't do it all because I had to be a generalist and no one asked me to do that. I was just curious, I saw a need for a thing and I said, I wanna, I wanna fix that. I wanna plug that hole. I want to be that, that, that need. So that's just how I am automatically as a person is when I see a need somewhere, I want to make sure that that need is met and I want to make sure it's not met mediocracy. It has to be met in an expert, intentional humanizing way. And here is this all the black women with so much history and a richness who's, who also has to connect them to Camden, to New Jersey where I'm from, Right? I took her story and introduced her to Twitter and told her story in a way that was like, that was more intentional. That was not Here's my bill. Here's my, here's my initiative. No, here's why I'm doing this thing that matters to black women. Here's I'm doing this thing that matters for adults who are disabled in New Jersey. Here's why this bill is important for women who are pregnant. So by, by telling those stories from the people perspective and now from the policy perspective, I was able to share who she is as a person. People got to love her and would have heard more if we re-elected her. So that's how I got into digital marketing. I was just curious, I was always creative and I've always been impressed by marketing because I'm African, I'm an immigrant. I couldn't do that. It was way too risky if my parents. So I said, do you know what we'll start if I'm going to be alive for the fourth time I have to live the life for me. I, I can't go to work unhappy I can, I, I can't go to work and live a life for someone else because I have to breathe in every single day. So I built something that didn't exist before. So um I like to say that because I am, I'm the first black to do director in Congress because I like I'm really good at laying foundations. I love working, walking down a road that's unpaved because it means I can build my own road. I don't want to build a road that’s built for me. I don't know how to follow the rules. 

John: 100% Wilsar, before before we get into your, you know, kind of what you do at uh SKDK and kinda curious in terms of your, you know, your, your title being the VP of social media and brand development. What do you see as kind of the, the distinction between brand development and, and specifically with respect to social media, right? Because there's a lot more involved than brand. But how do you kinda what's the relationship between digital marketing, social media and brand development? 

Wilsar: That's a great question John and thanks for asking that most people assume they know what that means, right? So I like to explain it. What that mean is what my job is, I am representing a brand organization, a think tank, a CEO, a thought leader like you and Iveliz, someone who has a message to share online. So most brands, most businesses have to use social media. It's another way to market their, their services and what they do. Well, my job is I I build strategy for these brands. I build thoughtful strategic and custom based strategy. So that speaks to their business model that speaks to their, their goals for that year. And with that, that goes into their tone, how they speak online. I do not, I advise brand of do not use African American vernacular English because that's not how they speak. I prevent brands from wearing digital blackface, meaning using it means there are black people or brown people that are not in concert with their brand image or brand voice. I advise brand on crisis. For example, what's happening in Ukraine where we come in is to inform brands how to engage or not engage in situations like as if they're unpredictable and very sensitive and as as as it is. So my job is to keep brand from walking into fire and but if they do walk into fire, I am the fireman, I helped them back out calmly, thoughtfully and strategically. Everything we do for everything I do from the people I work with, from members of congress, the presidents, the CEOs to authors, to celebrities is it's thoughtful. It's people first because the people you're talking to are the ones who are going to expand you until more bigger audiences. So I tell brand on in February that you can't just use February to show case all your black people. And in March, you can't use March because all the women in your company, it needs to be a thoughtful yearly thing that you do every single day. So it's not, you're not pandering and it's not inauthentic. It's in authentic when you do that, it's insulting to those groups of people because you can tell, you can always tell what you're doing. So that is my job. My job is to prevent brands from working into a fire. And then when they do work with the fire is to calmly hold their hand and, and guide them back out of the fire and make sure it doesn't happen again. 

Iveliz: So Wilsar, you mentioned that a big part of what you do is help people or businesses tell their stories authentically. And it seems like at the very least this form of marketing, authentic marketing and storytelling is the new trend, right? And you know, just to quote a study II, I researched a little bit before this call. One study found that over 86% of consumers say authenticity is important when deciding what brands they like. So it's clear that there's a large portion of people that really are connecting with this form of marketing. And I kind of want to get a sense of, you know, in your opinion, how does this new trend, right? This authentic marketing differ from traditional forms of marketing of the past. 

WIlsar: Of course, this is great because people ask me, how do you do it? How do you, how do you know what you do and how do you do it? And I said the reason why I'm so successful is because I've always been authentic in my approach. When I, in my marketing approach, it's not a trend. It's just how I this is how people are, people first people. So the difference is authentic marketing is again, it's so simple. It's people first. You are talking to people, you make them feel good. People want to feel part of a movement. It's part of a community. Whereas traditional marketing, in my opinion is all about making you feel like you're missing something. You're not beautiful enough, you're not skinny enough, you're missing out on this event If you don't come, if you don't pay the ticket, you're missing out. Where authenticity is telling you exactly here's what's gonna happen here where you should come. Here's how this will benefit you. If you attend, here's how this will be a great addition to your either over well being or your life or your job by being part of this community. It's more community-based and it's also, it feels the way I, I describe what that marketing is: No bullshit, pardon my language. It's just no bullshit. People aren't stupid. I don't believe that people are dumb. And I think traditional marketing thinks people are stupid and they don't know the difference between what's true and what's been fabricated. And I think most people aren't that stupid. I think people are aware and I don't want to be a con artist. Authentic marketing is not a con artist. I feel like sometimes tradition marketing can be mean and it can be very, almost like a bully. It's, and it's also can be very loud and noisy. Whereas authentic marketing is about storytelling, it's literally about putting people first. It's about telling, OK, what, what is Iveliz’s story and what and here's why you should care. It's having these conversations because this can be also be since it's marketing because we're talking about uh this uh topic that is very important, what we're doing in a storytelling way that's authentic. A marketing feels like a conversation doesn't feel like you're telling me something. It's me joining the conversation, not being me being tricked into joining the conversation. That's how I define authentic marketing, institutional marketing. 

John: Love that kind of hearing what you're saying Wilsar. So you talk about authentic marketing. I also hear something like in, in terms of empathetic marketing, right? And and kind of seeing, seeing the people like I keep saying people first and then also something I know we talked about in the past is that just thoughtful marketing. So in authentic empathetic and thoughtful marketing. So thinking about for, for social media, for example, what kind of role can social media play in terms of advancing social justice DEI issues? And what are some examples of some of these brands that do it really well on social media? 

Wilsar: This is a good question because you know, we, we all lived through 2020, that was 10 years ago. It felt like 10 years ago and we all saw the mishap. So I will say if I ask a question, I will say this when the idea of the black squares were um we we we were aware on social media, there was a, a campaign to blow black squares for social justice. When that was mentioned the idea behind it, I thought it was a good idea. It was interesting like no other people do it. It's the bare minimum to do something to stand in solidarity with Black Lives Matter. And then just happening to Black people in America and across the world. But the social media expert part of me saw a a hole in that marketing style because what happened with social media is all about how fast and how it's all about the masses. So if the masses are put on black squares, you're gonna drown out the message behind those black squares. What could have happened is companies could have shared more of what they were doing to be better. So the thing about who's doing better, who's doing the best I don't, I can't even say who's doing the best job because I think all companies could do better. Quite frankly. I think the best way to do that is in a very strategic approach. First, be honest with where you are to go on social media and tell them, look, we are not good at diversity and inclusion. We have not even thought about it in the more sincere in depth way. We've been busy. We've been careless. We have been, we have not seen its priority because we've been moving so fast and sprinting. You know, we don't have a great diversity team. We want to do better. Here's how we're doing better. If companies could just do that, those who are affected by things like that like me, a Black woman, you know, the uh you know, marginalized people, we respect that because you're being honest, you're not fabricating um numbers, you're not giving me a aspirational goal that is almost unrealistic to meet. You are coming to me where I am. So social media, I love it so much is because it is the it is the front door of the people's house. You are coming to my front door and you're telling me, you know what John, I have not been that great at hiring diverse people. My company could do better and could we go farther and I'm aware of that. We could go farther. I am ignorant to this at this moment. What can we do better? How can I take the next step? And it's not, the next step does not to be me hiring 10 Black people just to look good. Next step is OK, what's the plan? What's the strategy? And you go on social media and you update the audience that way you don't have to tell them your entire secret to your entire company. But the occasional updates of how, what you're doing to take the steps to become better, to become more diverse, not just diverse, inclusive, not just at the junior level, at the senior level, at the board membership level, at the chair level, you want, what, what action do you take to be more diverse and more inclusive and more aware of w’at's happening because it really help a lot of companies but a lot of companies are afraid to be that authentic, are afraid to be that human and to solve it. So you can't solve racism. I don't think you can really solve racism. It's gonna be, it's an ongoing unfortunate situation that we're living through. But if we are just more honest with each other company is just more realistic about what's going on and stop selling aspirational goals and speak to the audience as human beings. I messed up. I'm so sorry we didn't think about this. Um We know we have to do better. We're not gonna ask our Black people in our office to tell us what to do what to do next. We're gonna actually invest in professionals who are aware like you two, who know exactly what the right words are. And the right strategy is to make sure that our company is doing better. Once you take those steps, revenue will increase. I'm not sure why people think diversity makes revenue go down and increase the revenue, creativity increases, collaboration increases. And social media is the forefront for that because that's where you showcase your staff, your wins, your losses if you learn from them. So that's what it’s for. It's for communication. It's a dialogue, it doesn't have nuance. So don't try to get nuance on social media, but you can show them what the steps you're taking every quarter, every month to become a better company, a better brand, a better organization, a better person. So that's what it's for. It's to communicate your authentic, thoughtful messages that could really help you elevate whatever goals you have for your initiative, for your company. 

Iveliz: That's amazing. You've said a few things that I think are really interesting. And I was originally going to ask you what advice you have for brands. But what I actually want to ask you because I think there is a missing piece there is that there is oftentimes employees that are working in organizations where they see something and they're like, oh, I don't think this is going to resonate. You've mentioned that you've had to warn brands against using like black vernacular on their social media platforms because that's inauthentic. If there aren't any Black people running that social media platform, if there aren't black people involved in the conversation and if those constituents and people that are looking into that brand aren't particularly, you know, supportive of this, right? Because nobody wants to have language co-opted. What does that conversation look like, right? How do you have that conversation with brands and say look, this is going to be damaging or is it just as simple as that? 

Wilsar: It's a simple as that for me, for some people, they walk around that the topic. I don't have time for that because you hired me to be honest, you don't wanna waste your money. And if I'm bullshitting you, I'm lying to you about, about what you need to do next, then you should fire me and anyone else you should fire because they should not talk about the issue when it comes to race and when it comes to injustice so that my conversation with the brands and with the brands that includes members of Congress as well, that includes House and Senators that includes really top level people in, around the country, around the world. If you know what X brand, that is not the most authentic way to approach this issue, you have a new product and this is the idea of how you want to promote it. But I don't advise that that's the best way. And in order to avoid any fires on social media, here's what I advise. Here's the plan I think would be better for you, for your audience. So the way I do it as as well, when we build social media programs for brands, we we do analysis first. The first thing you do is we look at, we look at the landscape. Who is your audience? Who are you talking to? If your audience is not Black people who speak in that way, why are you speaking like that? If your audience aren't black people who, who engage in that way online, why are you using black women memes and gifts to explain how you feel about Friday on Mondays? That's not who you are. It's not authentic to who you are and that's how you get into trouble. When I was younger. I was more nervous. I was like, oh my God, don't fire me. Now that I'm older, I am much more confident. And I told them, I said, well, you need me and I know better in this format and we work together collaboratively to make sure we have the right message. But I just tell them this is not the best approach. And if you do this, X will happen and sometimes they do do this and X does happen. And that's when I hold their hand and walk about the fire that I told them not to walk into you know. 

John: As I think about it resonates so much with, with me Wilsar, because I think about some of the discussions we've had at Reed Smith about our social media strategy, especially for our D&I goals and missions and efforts. Devon Jaffe, who, who some of in our audience might know, leads our pr team and he's, he's, he's talked about, let's focus on storytelling and why that resonates is that it's authentic because you're focusing on real life stories of your real life people that's appealing to people on a personal level as well, right? And so it kind of really resonates, but it, I'm good, good to hear that we're, we're on the right track uh with some of those efforts. More broadly for our listeners looking to elevate their brands or have their brands, you know, be well positioned for all that we want to achieve, you know, specifically as we think about social justice, the DEI issues and the like, you know, what advice do you have? And you talked about a lot of that, but for specifically respect to social media to really communicate authentically with their followers. 

Wilsar: I'm, I wanna be very careful in answering this question because it's gonna be some repeats, but like you said, but it's important that I get this message clear, which is, it's never too much to share people's stories. At the end of the day, you’re selling to people. You want people to opt in to whatever it is that you your message, your campaign. People are lonely. People want to feel part of something. If you were doubtful before that people care about people and about stories, you should stop doubting that because people want to know what people are doing, how they're doing it. You know why they're doing it. Share people's why, share their journey, give them their flowers, meaning praise them spot like them while they are still here. I think brands, brands aren't people but the people make up the brand. And if brands put their people who are consensually, who want to be in front in the, in the limelight, let them tell the story. Most companies don't need to the marketing because they have people inside who are willing to just speak about it and promote it into the work they're doing. I look at what Iveliz does on, on linkedin sometimes where she shares her journey and what she's learning here. It it makes me like, oh wow. I had no idea. This is so interesting because I love stories. We all watch movies, we watch TV shows, we watch reality TV shows. What are those? Stories. They're just stories, keep sharing stories, keep finding creative ways to share stories, diverse stories, black stories, brown stories, differently able stories, you know, able body stories, African stories, Hispanic stories, Latinx. You wanna tell these stories of different people who have a journey through life in a way that you haven't yet. My story is the thread that keeps me connected to who I am. My story is not who I am, but it's a thread that can be connected to who I am. It makes up who I am. I'm not the word Survivor alone. But that story helps me connect with people, that experience helped me see people's humanity. It's not just about seeing about selling the next thing. You can sell whatever you want. If you are truly thoughtful and sincere and see people and what it is that I'm good at when I work with brands is I am able to position brands in a space to see people, to listen to people, to take their feedback, even if there's no action taken. But listen to what they have to say because those inputs are invaluable. So the progress of the work you're doing and in working in the politics, I would not be successful if I ignored people. Yeah, because people make up the votes. So the number one advice to everyone listening, whatever you are, your brand as a business or your thought leader who wants to elevate your reputation and be a specialist or be the, the the the thought leader who to call to speak about climate change or D&I issues or whatever tells your story. Don't be ashamed of it no matter how much the others may want to shame me about that story. If you're a CEO, how did you start? We all see how we, when we see commercial Steve Jobs, you know how Apple started, how Dell started that starting story, it takes you back to your why brands need to remember why they do what they do. Politicians, they figure out why they live for the, Reed Smith right here. Just to figure out why this podcast is so important. And why does the storytelling podcast you're hosting right now is so significant to the overall journey initiative with this mission, you have to have a mission, whether you're big brand or small brand or an individual. Tell your story, whether in a book, in a blog post, in a podcast on Instagram on Twitter, in a thread on Facebook, tell your story because there's a girl in Camden, New Jersey who came from Africa who just survived the war and your story could really help her. 

Iveliz: That's beautiful and very well said and incredibly important, not just in terms of brand, right? But living authentically. I think oftentimes as people of color, we force ourselves to be small to fit into places and we forget that who we are is so integral to our success, right? And there is no need to make ourselves small because if the world may see us who we actually are, then we'd be surprised at how accepting and warm and receptive that world would be. And, and you know, it's a beautiful message and I think a great way to kind of end this. And, and I, you know, so we thank you so much for coming here and being authentic and sharing your story. And part of why it's called Inclusivity Included: Powerful Personal Stories is because this is, this is what we do this for. It's because we recognize that despite how different we all are, our stories are what bring us together or what tie us to each other to this, you know, to this world, to humanity. So again, thank you so much and, and we're grateful to have you here. 

Wilsar: Of course. And if I add one more thing, I know it's not um is with my culture, the reason why I keep pushing stories like with my culture, we used to sit down outside, back home in Sierra Leone when I was like nine, I came when I was 10 and we'll sit down outside after all the chores are done and the weather is warm, but it's a little cool at night. We'll have some tea or something and guess what we'll do? Listen to stories of parables of grandmothers and ancestors and the future and what it's, it may look like. So it may seem like nothing but your story is What is gonna elevate you and keep you human. Thank you. 

John: Thank you. Wilsar Amazing. 

Outro: Inclusivity Included is a Reed Smith production. Our producer is Ali McCardell. This podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play, Stitcher, PodBean and reedsmith.com. 

Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions, or comments made by any external guest speaker are not to be attributed to Reed Smith LLP or its individual lawyers. 

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