Transcript:

Intro: Hi, I'm John Iino and welcome to the Reed Smith podcast, Inclusivity Included: Powerful Personal Stories. In each episode of this podcast, our guests will share their personal stories, passions, and challenges, past and present, all with a goal of bringing people together and learning more about others. You might be surprised by what we all have in common, inclusivity included.

John: Alright. Hey everyone. Welcome to the podcast, Inclusivity Included. I'm John Iino and we're really blessed to have with us our partner, A. Scott Bolden. Scott's the two time office managing partner of our Washington DC office. Scott's also been named one of the minority corporate council association's top rainmakers, and in fact, Scott has his own Wikipedia page. Scott, I think you're probably one of the few Reed Smith partners I can claim to have his own Wikipedia page. So you check it out, is that you probably, many of you have seen Scott on TV. He's got a rare distinction of being a political legal analyst and appearing on both CNN and Fox News and NBC. So how you straddle that, Scott, it's this amazing between CNN Newsroom and Tucker Carlson. That's a real feat to be able to get on both of those.

Scott: John, you know what the answer is? I don't take money from either of them, so I'm a free agent.

John: Awesome, awesome. Well, Scott, the podcast is called Inclusivity Included: Powerful Personal Stories, and what we'd like to talk about is a little bit about the history of people and sharing their personal stories. And through that people can learn more about each other. And through that we hopefully will achieve more inclusion and people getting to feel connected with each other or finding commonalities. So for you, I've heard a bit of your story. You've done a number of fireside chats and meetings to all of our folks here at Reed Smith. But tell us for our audience, tell us a little bit about your background, your story, and some of the challenges you faced.

Scott: Yeah, so my story is pretty well known at Reed Smith and lots of different places on the internet, but I am the most unlikely partner, let alone managing partner of a big law firm than you will ever meet. And perhaps in the history of big law, I'm a second generation lawyer. My father, Raymond Bolden is a former civil rights lawyer, criminal defense lawyer from Joliet in Chicago, Illinois. I grew up watching him try cases. He was my true inspiration. The first case I watched him try was in southern Illinois, which is below the Mason-Dixon line in the late sixties, early seventies. And I remember being eight years old and me and my father were the only people of color, only black people, let alone any other group of people in this courtroom. And my father was trying a case defending an African-American man who had been accused of raping and assaulting a white woman. And we stayed with relatives because there were no hotels for us to stay in. And as I said, this city we were in was below the Dixon Line in the state of Illinois. I would joke with my mother and father that that was the first lie they ever told me was that these were relatives of ours that we were staying at. But my father's C room iq, his booming voice and the command of respect from both the judge and the prosecutor was just life-changing for me. I didn't need to have a hero for an athlete or an entertainer. My father was my hero because he only not only lived with us, but I watched him work his craft and he was dedicated to the noble craft of practicing law of litigation, the Socratic method, direct and cross examination, very well respected, and it really didn't matter whether he won that case or lost it. He did win. The jury acquitted this gentleman and it was a tremendous victory, but I never forgot how well my father performed in the well of the courtroom. And I knew at that moment that's what I wanted to do. I didn't want to do anything else. If I weren't a lawyer, I'd be acting. But that wasn't academic enough for my parents. Both of them obviously were very well educated. My mom was a college professor and a college administrator in Illinois, but they both were my greatest inspiration. They both not only preached academics and giving back to your community, my mother would often say that you're only living 50% of your life if you're just working and making money. The other 50% has got to do with giving back to the community and leaving it in a better place than you found it. And so growing up in the Civil rights movement, we desegregated schools and healthcare facilities and restaurants in and around the state of Illinois for a period. My father was the state president of the, and so I had these inferences, these touch points where I was very cognizant of race and racism and race resolution and civil rights and making not only the community better, but also on the national front with Martin Luther King and other national civil rights leaders. My father and mother were the local and state lieutenants for the civil rights movement that you never really hear about. And so from the moment I watched my father try a case at eight, I wanted to be a lawyer and I was going to get my law degree as soon as possible and go back to Joliet, Illinois and practice law with my father. Now that's a long way from Reed Smith in Washington dc but that was the goal. My father would eventually become a judge in the 12th state judicial circuit once I got my law degree from Howard Law School and finished Morehouse College. And I went to New York to be a prosecutor in the Manhattan District Attorney's office from 87 to 91 and would return to Washington with my first wife because we were geographically separated based on her work with Bush I and housing department, HUD and my term, three or four years at the DA's office, my commitment was up and that's how I got to Washington.

John: Well, what an amazing story, what an inspiration your dad was for you. And I see that you're an inspiration for so many people, not only in Reed Smith, but all around the country. It's so great that what you said about only 50% of your work is what you do, 50% of other things, of what you're giving back. And just if all of us did that.

Scott: Absolutely. And John, the other thing I want to share is growing up with a lawyer in the home and a judge, and truth, honesty, justice, freedom, equality, those were real qualities my father preached. And though we were in a fight for civil rights against people, if you say against people who didn't look like us, he was very clear that me and my brother and sister were never to hate someone else because of their race. So while many of his adversaries did not look like us, we were not allowed to hate or speak negatively of his counterparts or his adversaries in civil rights movement, the government, the mayor, whomever it was simply because they were white. And I remember that guiding principle and I used to think how disciplined he could be because things were said about him, things were done to him. He withstood a lot of attacks as a public in the civil rights movement. And I thought my father was the strongest man and the most disciplined man I had ever met because he could have lashed out. Well, there was a real reason for him to have negative feelings or even to hate his adversaries. And not only did he not hate his adversaries, he was respected by his adversaries in the civil rights movement, but we weren't allowed to hate the other side. My mother would say to me all the time that hate is too important of an emotion to waste it on someone that you don't like. And so that was our guiding principle growing up. And whether we were publicly attacked or my father was, or I was at school because of his civil rights work, we certainly were taught that being respected was more powerful than being hated or for us to hate someone else. They disagreed with our view of the world. So that was also important in my becoming a lawyer and becoming Ray Bolden's son as a man.

John: Ray Bolden son, the man. And what your mom said about never used that, a powerful emotion of hate on someone that you don't like.

Scott: Isn't that an awesome statement? Isn't it an awesome piece?

John: So tell us about growing up. I hear about your inspirations and all the teachings and what a great example your dad and mom set you. What were some of the challenges you felt growing up that shaped who you are now?

Scott: Well, I was a lot smaller growing up than I am now, and so I was bullied looking back, but I was bullied by friends, if you will. I was always the smallest in the group and they bullied me, but how do I say this? There wasn't a whole lot of angst behind it or negative energy. They just did it. It was something to do. But if I got into a problem with another group of kids, the cats that bullied me would defend me. And so it was a really confusing childhood as far as social groups were concerned. Secondly, I remember going to an all white Catholic high school and the kids that I went to school with were from not urban communities like I was in Joliet, but they were from country communities, if you will. They were from rural America. Illinois has a lot of farms and a lot of corn fields and stuff. And so I remember being called out of my name a lot and being called the N word a lot. And it was very frustrating for me because you go through me growing up, I went through fighting in high school every time that word was used against me to reporting it, to verbally sparring with those who would use that racial slur with me to blowing it off with humor over the course of four years. But it had a tremendous impact on me. I was never uncomfortable with the race question. I just couldn't understand why everyone else around me was so uncomfortable with it and found the need to talk of race in such negative tones and to engage in name calling, especially coming from a household where we were fighting for a better America, fighting for a better community. We weren't fighting just some for ourselves, but we were fighting for the American dream and the right to pursue the American dream with equality as every individual, every American. And I was really keen on that and made aware of that early on in my childhood. So I was highly motivated coming out of high school to go to an historical black college like Morehouse College. I went there because my mother who had a company called Educational Associates exposed African-American students and students of color to historical black colleges as part of her goals and objectives for her business. And so Martin Luther King went to Morehouse, Maynard Jackson went to Morehouse, and so many other inspirational leaders that happened to be African American. And I took to Morehouse like Fish to Water. It's the only place on earth where 2,500 young African-American men are seeking, looking and studying not only leadership but excellence on any given day in this world. And I now sit on the board of trustees for Morehouse College. They are an incredible institution for African-American men and very proud to serve, but also very proud of the education and the confidence Morehouse gave me to be a leader. When I left Morehouse, I knew my role was not just to get a degree, but it was to be a leader in my community and that I knew that I was well trained and well prepared, and it gave me a tremendous amount of confidence going into Howard's Law School. I was taught by some of the most significant lawyers in DC and judges who happened to be African-American, William Bryant and others, and those who have gone to Howard University School of Law, those Saturday morning trial ad classes were laboratories for training and just, you never forgot Luke c Moore and others who would try do the demonstrations. We were supposed to be doing the demonstrations, but Luke Seymour and Judge Brian and others would get into such a competition that we never got enabled to. The students didn't get a lot of opportunity to present because they were so into it. We had to pull their shirt tail or their jackets and say, can I go now? Can I go now? Judge Brian? Oh, Judge Brian.

John: Is there something you're trying to teach us here, judge?

Scott: Yeah, really, really, you've done this in real life a lot. But that gave me a lot of confidence when I went to New York, had no real interest in going into big law. I was going to go home and practice with the old man, and that was my mother's dream. And he went to the bench. He had practiced for about 20 or 30 years and he was ready to do something else. And so I loved and respected him for it, and they let me off the hook if I took the Illinois bar. And I said, that's not a fair exchange. I have to gratuitously take the Illinois bar in order for my mother to free me from coming home after being in New York. And she said, that's the deal, because your father may not be on the bench forever, and if you are barred in Illinois, you can then leave whatever you're doing and come home and practice with him. And I said, wow, that's a hell of a deal. I said, okay, I'll do it. I found out I only had to take half of the Illinois bar because of my New York bar scores, and then I waved into dc. So I thought taking half the bar as one of my mother's wishes wasn't so bad, but it was tough you John, because I had failed the New York bar the first time I passed it the second time, and I really wasn't looking to take another bar after that. I thought I was done. I was going to wave into dc, but me and my mother cut that deal and it worked out pretty well. It worked out pretty well.

John: Did you ever just consider being a judge with your dad being on the bench and coming back to Illinois?

Scott: Nah, I never did. Judges live very isolated lives, and if they don't live isolated lives, then their social circle has got to be tight. There are a lot of risk and peril with not keeping the temperament of being on the bench. You got judicial canons of ethics. I mean, it's hard to socialize beyond your circle, and it's also hard to have a political or legal opinion or to speak publicly. You can certainly join boards and commissions, you can certainly teach, you can certainly be active in the Bar Association. But the one things I love most about being a partner at a big law firm, or rather just being a lawyer, is my freedom to matriculate in this world. I can sit on boards and commissions, I can teach, I can write books. I can give my legal opinion, my political opinion. I can do a podcast like this. I can do legal and political commentary, and I'm really free with my opinions and what I believe in if people want to listen or care about what I think about based on my 30 years in big law and my former years as a prosecutor, my time running for office, my time being a state democratic state party chair, my time being part of the wishlist committee that built a really awesome facility in southeast Washington to change the lives of young people through tennis and education. If they're interested in my story, I'm more than willing to share it. I've never lacked for a lot of confidence, but I've never lacked for respecting others and respecting opposing counsel and respecting those who don't share my view of the world politically or legally. And it makes for a good mix. That's why I can go on Fox and CNN and MSNBC because I treat everyone with dignity and respect and it commands dignity and respect back to me. And then humor is always offsetting for anyone that may have negative energies towards me in the courtroom or in the media or even in my personal social circles. Whatever I'm passionate about and I drive my point home, I try to end it or accentuate with some humor, some frailty that we all suffer from as lawyers or politicians or human beings because it creates a commonality that if you are the hard right conservative, you have to laugh at yourself or laugh at our profession or laugh at a political viewpoint. And I try to pepper my discussions and debates with that because in the end, we're all human beings, we're all Americans, but most importantly, we all want the best for this country. We just disagree on how to get there. And that's kind of been one of my touch points as a partner at Reed Smith.

John: I love what you said right there in terms of just finding our commonalities. That's right. And using humor also just to those touch points. Because a big part of what we're trying to achieve here is that yes, we want everyone to emphasize their differences. We want everyone to be their authentic selves where people can around the organization, around the industry, around the world can appreciate others, but the more we emphasize our differences, we also should be emphasizing our commonalities. What brings us together, as you're saying that not being a judge, I said it makes complete sense to me because there's no way anyone's going to box in Scott Bolden, right? Here's the guy with have millions of followers all around the country, around the world and say he's going to say what he's going to say. So that makes all the sense to me.

Scott: Well, we also, to your prior point, we got to also celebrate our diversity and the stronger we are and our teams are, and we are as a group and community, our diversity is our strength. It's not a weakness. Our commonality is strong too, but we've got to embrace diversity. You got to believe in it. And inclusivity, you got to believe in it because if you don't, then that's the antithesis of American values. It really is. We're a melting pot of immigrants and our differences and what makes this country so awesome is this experiment in American values. And the American dream works with those differences that all of us have brought to this country. From your nationality, my nationality, Africa and Asia and wherever you are from, we've all come together in this experiment. And it's worked for over 400 years now. It is deeply flawed. Do not get me wrong. We've gone through some challenges, but it's better than in my opinion, whatever else is out there. And so our job is to work to make sure that we celebrate diversity and inclusion and that we become stronger because of it, not weaker.

John: Absolutely. So Scott, you mentioned earlier that you'd gone to an all white Catholic high school. You talked about when your dad was the only black person in the courtroom. From those situations, what were you telling yourself? What were you telling yourself and be able to succeed in those situations?

Scott: To pursue and to be excellent, to be an extraordinary lawyer as my dad was, to treat people with dignity and respect, but more importantly, I belong there. I've always believed whatever I've put in my life, wherever I've gone in this world, I belong there. I'm not happy to be there. My mother told me growing up, she said, you are going to be special. You are going to do extraordinary things, baby boy, your father and I are going to be nowhere near as are not anywhere near as ambitious as you. Your brother and sister are not as vicious as you, but I know you want it all. And we've prepared you to be an extraordinary human being, an extraordinary lawyer. And so wherever you go, you remember one thing that Joliet, Illinois is not the center of the universe. And wherever you go, you better act like you belong there. You should never act like you're glad to be there. And what she was saying is that you belong. If it's an all white community or office or gathering, that's okay. You belong. You're good enough to be there. And so you should act like it. You've been well-trained as smart as anybody else. You work harder than anybody else. You are going to succeed or be twice as good as anybody else whether you need to succeed or not. But excellence and being an extraordinary lawyer will be your calling card. And if you honor that coupled with the God-given talent me and your father have given you, and then she would say, especially your father, you got a lot of talent from your daddy, then you're going to be okay and you could be extraordinary things. That kind of upbringing and coupled with Morehouse training for leadership and Howard University School of Law gave me a tremendous amount of confidence and passion in what I was going to do or what I'm even doing now that I believed them. When they told me that I was training for leadership, I believed my mother and father when they said I was going to do extraordinary things. And so for me, for all of my success in big law and in the community and in politics and in representing clients and just being a 30 year, 29 year member of Reed Smith, I know I'm a history maker and I'm very comfortable in that space, but in my mind, I'm living the very best life that I was told I was going to live and I am just doing what I was trained to do. I was doing what my mother told me I was going to do and what my law professors and college professors said I should do. And I'm not saying it in any cocky way. What I'm saying is I believed in the training and I went forth afterwards to lead and to make the communities that I've lived in and grown up in, whether it's a national platform or a local platform, I'm just doing what I was told to do. I believed in those institutions. I believed in my parents and all of us. I just hoped that my mother, who's no longer here with us and my father who is but is a lot older now, I hope they're proud of me. I hope I've made a difference in so many lives and I'm not done yet. But in the end, making a difference and leaving in a better place. And I think making your family, making your parents proud is that's just good stuff. It doesn't get better than that and making others better around you, as my grandmother would say, you're really cooking when you're doing that.

John: Cooking with gas. I'm going to have my kids listen to this podcast to make sure they lay, listen to this one right there. I'm sure. Terrific.

Scott: They'll do it.

John: So you said, I love you said you're not done yet. You've done such amazing things already in your career. You reached the pinnacle of success within the profession, one of the highly respected leaders, not only at Reed Smith, but just around you said you're a history maker. I just love that term as well. So sitting here today and thinking forward, what are your goals for the next 10, 20 years? Where do you see you're going from here?

Scott: Well, John, I hope I'm retired within 10, 20 years. I'm not going to stop working and stop leading and stop making our communities is around us better. But I will say this, the only thing that gives me the same rush as practicing law in the well of the courtroom is the living at the intersection of business, law, politics, and race. And I'm trying right now, I'm trying to figure out in many different ways how that intersection, how I can play a significant role in that intersection that whether it's by writing a book, whether it's by doing media to cover race law and politics, again, to change the lives and to impart wisdom and to share my view of the world. I'm big on race reconciliation. I don't think I'm ever going to stop practicing law, but my focus and passion is going to shift within the next five, 10 years. And that is the issue of race reconciliation, that I'm terribly troubled that we have generational racism, whether you're black, brown, yellow, red, you're not born with a racism gene, and yet we have generational racism who's teaching our kids to be racist or to have to practice racial prejudice or to think less of someone because of the color of their skin, their environment is, whether it's their families or their environment, their friends, and I really deeply believe, deeply believe that we need a race reconciliation dialogue, a national dialogue on race reconciliation. We've never really worked out and moved on and resolved between black people and white people. The issue of slavery, we still live with the bastards or the badges of slavery. Even though we've made a lot of progress, we still have the emotional scars of moving on without reconciliation, moving on without sharing and cathartic discussions. Many of my colleagues who are African-American feel like believe in reparations. Many of my colleagues who don't believe in reparations but also believe that they've paid their dues, that the African-American community is much better now. And how long am I going to have to pay for what my forefathers did in the 1700s and 1600s and Jim Crow and the civil rights movement? That's fair. Those are both very different, but very fair thoughts in regard to those communities. And I think if we bring those communities together, if we have a national dialogue and be open and available to share those thoughts, to receive them, obviously racism, race discrimination certainly will be the topic of discussion, but it should not be tolerated in a negative way at the table of these community discussions. I think until we do that, and it could be subsets of how Asian-Americans were treated with internment, it can be a subset of immigration and how our brown brothers and sisters have been treated in this country. We are a great democracy, but we are imperfect. And so that race reconciliation dialogue has got to take place between our white brothers, brown brothers, black brothers, you name it, because we're here and we're stuck with each other. And until we're not going to get better, until we can resolve those outlying or those underlying issues that we think are just going to go away with time and with acceptance, they really aren't. We have to have that dialogue. And I hope to be part of that national dialogue with a national effort to have that dialogue about race reconciliation.

John: I agree. It won't go away with time. It's important for all of us to step into this and to be having those discussions.

Scott: That's why we still have the issues that we have in 2020, whether it's police brutality, whether it's Charlottesville, Virginia, where we have white supremacists and Nazis marching where a white female was killed fighting Nazis in Charlotte, Virginia two or three years ago. Are you kidding me? And so those are remnants of unreconciled racial tensions and race issues that through dialogue, I think open, authentic dialogue that we can get past. We don't have to agree, but at least we can appreciate each side's view of the world. Maybe we can educate the other side and maybe they're less offended and be less likely to be pitted against us or each other with that knowledge. And then that intellect and demagogues won't be able to get any traction with white supremacist supremacists or Nazis, black based groups who are totally driven by race and being aggressive and violent, either side through each other. Maybe they won't be susceptible to that if they understand and appreciate why both sides are feeling it's an experiment. It's a risk, but it's a risk worth taking because we can only get better from that dialogue because look at where we are right now, really tough. We're in a tough place race wise, and we got to be comfortable talking about it and we need to be talking about it.

John: Well, that's certainly a goal of this podcast to just start the discussions, I would love to partner with you in terms of continuing this national dialogue on race relations. It's so important. And you said that living at the intersection of business, law, politics, and race, where you're going from here, I know you're going to do it, and then I have every confidence and just look forward to seeing you in that role. You're so inspirational to people because we start to wrap up. I know earlier you had penned a letter to your younger self and advice to a young a Scott Bolden. Given all that, how far you've come, what one thing stands out for you in terms of your advice to your younger self?

Scott: Being fearless. Big law is a tough environment for young people, whoever you are. And my track being a rainmaker had to do with name recognition. I didn't understand how someone could call me if I believed I was the best litigator in the firm or in the world. If no one knew my name, then how could they ever call me? And so obviously marketing is really important, but being fearless in charting your own course, I was roundly criticized by senior partners, not at Reed Smith, but at other law firms who happened to be African American about my approach of representing high profile individuals and representing them for free sometime because I knew that I was building name recognition and I knew that they would be press coverage. I wasn't trying to represent them because of the press coverage. I was representing them because I needed name recognition. And that's a lot different than being press driven. You're purpose driven because I'm building my law practice. And so I urge young people to be fearless, to work your plan, plan your work, have the confidence to see it through or to be flexible enough to alter it if you will. But you got to have a plan. You've got to have mentors. If you're going to be a mentor or you're want mentorship, you've got to make your mentor, mentor you. I talk to young people all the time who come to see me. I mentor young people, young lawyers in the office from eight to nine, two or three times a week. It drives me crazy because if I don't want to get in at eight or nine, I've got that appointment on my schedule, but it's part of giving back and sharing my story. But I tell them, you've got to make me mentor you. Everyone says, I want you to be my mentor. I say, make me mentor you, then it doesn't come for free. Make me mentor you because I'm busy. I've got clients, I've got management duties here. I've got community involvement. I'm on boards and commissions. I'm writing a book. Make me mentor you. And they often say, well, how do I do that? And I tell them, I'm not going to figure it all out for you. Now, give it some thought and then we'll meet again and you tell me how you want me, how you're going to make me mentor you because I'm available for mentorship. But it's a two-way street and you got to work at it, and you have to make me mentor you.

John: I love make me mentor you because as I've been saying for a while, and I should have maybe trademarked this mentorship is a two-way street, but maybe you came up with it first, so I couldn't have trademarked that. But absolute.

Scott: You can have it, but we're on the same page.

John: Well, now that we're public with a podcast, we probably can't trademark it. Anyways. Anyway, Scott, it's been really great having you on the podcast, sharing your stories, talking about your dad and your mom, and what an inspiration they were to you and everything that you've accomplished. I wish we had hours and hours of talk, and so we'll hopefully bring you back for another episode. But thank you. Thank you so much for coming out.

Scott: Yeah, this has been a lot of fun. I got to tell you and forgive all the stories and sayings I'm sharing from my dad and mom and my grandmother, but they were tools of encouragement and inspiration for me, and I try to live by those principles as much as I can.

John: As you are an inspiration for so many people as well. So thank you. Thank you again. It's great.

Scott: Thank you. This has been awesome.

Outro: Inclusivity Included is a Reed Smith production. Our producer is Ali McCardle. This podcast is available on Apple Podcast, Google Play, Spotify, Stitcher, PodBean and reedsmith.com.

Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome.

All rights reserved.

Transcript is auto-generated.