Transcript:

Intro: Hi, I'm John Iino and I'm Iveliz Crespo. Welcome to the Reed Smith podcast Inclusivity Included: Powerful Personal Stories. In each episode of this podcast, our guests will share their personal stories, passions and challenges, past and present, all with the goal of bringing people together and learning more about others. You might be surprised by what we all have in common, inclusivity included. 

Iveliz: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. As always, this is Iveliz Crespo and I'm joined by our co-host John Iino. Hi, John. 

John: Hi, Iveliz. 

Iveliz: You folks are in for a very special treat today you are going to hear from one of my favorite people, a friend and colleague of mine, Diana Cortes. Hi, Diana. 

Diana: Hi, Iveliz. Hi, John. So happy to be here and thank you for this great opportunity and treat to see both of you, especially you Iveliz. 

Iveliz: So, Diana is the city solicitor for the city of Philadelphia, which means she is their Chief Legal Officer. Diana is the first Latina to hold this role and in this role, she represents the city of Philadelphia and serves as general counsel to the mayor and his administration, city council and all city departments, agencies, boards and commissions and she manages the entire city law department which employs over 330 attorneys and professional staff. In addition to her title, Diana is a, a stellar litigator, someone who has a long resume of various roles uh where she has represented various companies and advanced the rights of many of her clients. Uh So thank you so much, Diana. We are very happy to have you and I recognize that you are incredibly busy, so I really appreciate you taking the time. 

Diana: No, I really appreciate this opportunity and I think it's so important to take the time to talk about, you know, these different various important issues, especially diversity, equity and inclusion and inclusivity and how we in the legal fields can be better on that. It's, you know, it's always been a passion of mine, but I think especially this day and age, it should be a shared obligation among all of us in the legal community. And I think, you know, with, with this privilege of having this position, I, my intent is to use that voice in that position to make sure everyone who has to listen to me knows about this. 

Iveliz: Absolutely. And you know, and I've been trying to get Diana onto the podcast for the listeners for a long time and why I made the joke about her schedule is she is incredibly busy as, as one would expect when you are the Chief Legal Officer for an entire city. And, you know, one of the things that I, you know, Diana, I think about you is that your, your bio and your resume really speaks for itself, you are incredibly accomplished and for folks who do not know and haven't had the privilege of working with Diana closely. I have worked with her closely and I think she's one of the best attorneys that I've ever worked with. I've seen you at the legal department very much. Look at issues holistically, you know, you have a keen legal eye, but you also look at things with empathy and passion for all of the parties involved. And it's clear that based on your career trajectory and your quick rising to the city's ranks, that you have a clear passion for justice. And one of the things that I want to know is where that passion comes from, who is Diana Cortes? And eventually when we, when we hear that, why the legal industry, when someone with your talents and skill sets could have gone into any industry of your choosing? 

Diana: Thank you for that, Iveliz. And I think yeah, during different points in my career, I think my parents asked that as well. Like why are you choosing these, you know, lower paying public interest jobs? Right? You're a lawyer, you have this great skill set, go to the private sector, go make some money, especially with my parents came from Costa Rica. So it was really the stereotypical like American immigrant dream and trajectory to have, you know, Children go up through the um and pursue that American dream that is I think very prevalent in immigrant communities. So I think for them, when I went from private practice into the public sector, there were a lot of questions, but I think to your initial question of sort of where this all started from, I think innately there was always this passion and drive for what is right and what is just, I think they, I won't say how old I am, but my current self, looking back on my younger self as to, why was it that, so what I really liked was in watching TV and seeing Law and Order and those types of shows. And I was really attracted to the prosecutors, right? They were the ones going into the courtroom and in very dramatic fashion fighting for justice. And they were clearly the good people in the criminal justice system and they were the ones bringing right and stability to the world. And I think I really, you know, I, I liked that. I also in, I used my parents as, as practice grounds for fighting, right? So in arguing with them and making sure that they heard me until they couldn't stand me anymore. And then they thought, you know, you should go be a lawyer, leave us alone, go start doing well in school. And so I had that passion and that's what drove me to law school. And then it was interesting in law school, you realize, like that's just one particular area of law and there are so many other very interesting areas. And you realize, I realized when I got there just what a valuable skill set it was. But I still, I think Iveliz to your point, there was still that passion, that conviction for doing what was right and just. So I think that all sort of led me to the legal profession. I also didn't have any attorneys in my family. I didn't know any attorneys growing up. So I was really just had that tunnel vision as to what was seen on TV. And it really spoke to me and I think it was that, that, you know, that was the path to justice. And I think as we all have seen and also through my different, you know, through my experience at the DA's office. But just in general, I think you realize it's a little bit, it's a lot more complex than that. And I think I learned, you know, through my different jobs that it's really, you really have to have a core sense of who you are and what are your pillars and that you, as long as you are guided by that you can do good wherever you are. And a mentor of mine at Sunoco so one of my earlier internships in law school was with Sunoco, she told me like it's not about where you are, it's you were gonna, you are a good person. You will, you will do good and be good wherever you are. So don't let others try to put you in any corner because you're now working for X company when you worked for, you know, in, in the public sector or for government for so long, you are still good and you can be good wherever you are. So that really, um I think resonated with me. 

Iveliz: I just wanted to highlight something that you said, you know, I think as lawyers of color, particularly as like first generation professionals coming out, coming from like families, like my family moved here when I was five right to, to have a better life for me outside Puerto Rico. And one of the things that I've always felt is like there is this feeling I think and this guilt that you navigate the world with where it's like you have, you have benefited so much from your ancestors and you have so much to prove, is it selling yourself out? Right? Are you selling out by going and working for a corporation versus going and working for nonprofits? And, and I think that that's a feeling that a lot of attorneys get. So I love that. You said what you said was I think very true is that is you need to know where you stand, right? What are your core values? And when you know that, no matter where you are, right. If those core value values are rooted in justice, they're rooted in fairness, they're rooted in this intrinsic, you know, what's right, no matter where you are, you're going to do what's right. Right. You're going to live up and live out, you know, your ancestors wildest dreams. But I don't think many people think of it that way. You know, I do think there's that guilt that people feel that, oh, shouldn't I be helping my community when my community helped me so much? Right? 

Diana: And I think it's also i it's, it's trying to find, you know, always being true to yourself and your core values. But also having, I think being fortunate enough and vigilant enough to find the environment, right? Where those core values are just that are valued and sought after and cultivated that you're not just there to check a box, right? That you are there because they want all of you and they want every part of you to be brought to different decision making, to different, you know, decision making conversations or for those positions of leadership or if you're not there yet at, you know, at the line attorney level like that, they want all of you. So I think it's, and it's very difficult, right? Especially as a younger attorney, like a less experienced attorney, you're just, you know, I remember when I was young and just being grateful to have a job. Right. And then you're, you know, you're, there's different things that are expected from you, from different employers and trying to strike that right balance of how much of my true self am I gonna bring out here? And is it a safe space yet with trying to still rise up the ranks? And it's, it's hard, it's, it's a constant, I think, struggle for, for a lot of people. But I think in particular attorneys of color or professionals of color. 

John: Diana, it's, it's just an honor to meet you and to for you to share your journey with, with our audience so full disclosure for our audience. Iveliz mentioned knowing or working with Diana before. But that's because Ivelizused to be before joining Reed Smith was the director for D& I uh in the city of Philadelphia's legal department. So worked directly with Diana. So we probably haven't gotten in this program a little bit of Iveliz’s background but they have have a long experience with, with Diana. But Diana, one thing what, what you said that just really resonate with me is that I remember when I graduated law school and our keynote speaker for a commencement was Erwin Chemerinsky, who is now the Dean of uh Boalt Hall. And he said to the to the graduates, your charge is now that you're armed with a legal degree is to change the world in whatever way you can is to change the world. And I remember personally, you know, I, I had a job with, lined up with a big law firm and I was aspiring to be a corporate lawyer. And, you know, I said to myself, how am I gonna change the world as a corporate lawyer and had discussions and ultimately believe that everyone, no matter what role they have, no wonder what position they have, they can still do amazing things to change the world. And as I was coming up in the, in, in the firm, I always tried to do whatever I can, whether I was interacting with clients, interacting with staff, interacting with others to make sure that, you know, I was doing positive, positive things to change lives or, you know, change outlooks in those interactions. And I, I've said this to like the the incoming classes in law schools is that everyone should have that, that charge that to change the world. And I thought that, well, you know, that means you got to go into public interest. But if everyone that had that attitude went in the public interest, where would the people be that are in the law firms and government in corporations in, in all around, you know, in, in around around the world. If you don't have people with that attitude there, then all the passionate people will be only serving 1 area. So it's so important to have people like you in, in, you know, in your role as a city solicitor or us in the law firm is what we do now. So I just, you know, thank you for the continued passion and the ability to change the world. So just very quickly and we talked about a little bit of Iveliz prior to joining Reed Smith, but Diana prior to um becoming uh the, the, the law department for the city, um you were in private practice. Um And I know we have, you know, a number of folks out there that are private practitioners, you know, what was uh your journey, what made you decide to join the, the law department for the city? 

Diana: Yeah so I've had my career path has sort of gone between public interest or government work in the private sector. And so I started clerking at right after law school I clerked for the now chief of the eastern district of Pennsylvania, the honorable Juan Sanchez for two years after graduating. And it was a tremendous experience. He was and has and will forever be a phenomenal mentor and grand sponsor of mine. After that, I, I worked at Morgan Lewis for five years in their white collar crime group and also doing complex litigation. And I still, you know, you talk about still having, you know, wanting to do good and want, having still that passion and, but being in a big law firm and this is where my parents were like, why did you leave? You're making all this nice money. We're going on these nice trips. Like this is, you know, you're doing stuff for us. Like, why, why do you want to go to the DA’s office? And it was that I still had that passion at the time. I didn't have Children so I could afford the massive pay cut that my parents were really like, are, are you ok? Like do you need to go see a doctor? Because what you are making does not make any sense. You are leaving this nice comfortable, like it wasn't comfortable like this nice job and you are making literally a fraction of what you made there. Like, really? Are you ok? I assured them I was. I went to the District Attorney's office and I had, you know, that experience of being in the courtroom every single day and it wasn't, you know, it obviously surprise, surprise was not what it was like on TV, at all. It was, you know, I worked longer hours at times at the DA’s office than I did in private practice. And again, for the fraction of the pay, but the amount the experience I got was invaluable. I oftentimes think that there was a lot of personal or I guess soft skills, but people like to talk about mention it and there in dealing with all different types of people every single day in the worst situations possible. Right. If people are in court, it's because there was some crime that occurred and then you have your complainant who is scared does not want to be there, then you have other witnesses who may also not want to be there. So it was a matter of managing those and expectations and making those people feel valued and important because they were valued and important part of this process also dealing with like the judges and the court criers and all these others with somewhat competing interests. So I look back on that experience now and I was like, who would have known that was such great training ground for sort of the 24/7, you know, potential time that I have here in dealing with all the different clients that Iveliz mentioned at the beginning. So I was there for two years at the DA’s office for two years. I did various trials. I had that courtroom experience that I always longed for, but I missed having clients because as a district attorney, you do not have a particular, the commonwealth is your client. It's not the complainant of a, you know, of a complainant of a victim crime. It is the commonwealth and sort of, it's amorphous. It's sort of what is in the best interest of that client. There's no ongoing discussions or how to proactively approach or avoid. There's none of that. And I realized that I really liked that from the private practice right from my time at Morgan, I realized I really liked that. So through one of my other mentors, Judge Restrepo, I reached out to him and he was the one who put me in touch with the folks at Marshall Dennehy because he had worked along on the opposite side of them on a lot of civil rights cases. I think they thought because of my experience in federal, you know, with the federal clerkship and then with the DA's office, it was sort of a good mix to do civil rights work. So I did that for about a little over 2.5 years over at Marshall. And then through that time, I did work with Marcel Pratt and then Craig Straw tangentially through these different um civil rights cases. And so I was able to work with them, get to know them. And then when Marcel was promoted to solicitor, he reached out to see if I would be interested in being the litigation chair. And then at the time, I was, I think just a month back from maternity leave at Marshall's. So it was managing, you know, being a new mom and an attorney and then being presented with this tremendous opportunity of being a manager of a C-suite executive, essentially of 70 people. Some attorneys had been practicing law as long as I had been alive and sort of being their boss. Right? And so how do you know it was very, I will be honest and candid with you. As Iveliz knows, I don't know any other way to be. It was a bit daunting. Um I definitely questioned taking that leap just because of all the other things going on in my life and close loved ones were like, why are we having this discussion? This is a tremendous opportunity. If not you, who else? Like they're coming to you for a reason, like stop doubting yourself, just go and do it. So I did that and, you know, the rest is somewhat history. So I was able to do that. And then when Marcel left, I then was asked to take his place. And then in the uh I think when Iveliz was still with us, Iveliz was one of those people who would say, you know, if Marcel leaves and they ask you to be the solicitor, like you're gonna do it right? Like you have to do it. And again, it was interesting that it was just still that going back to that place of initial, you know, doubt, right? Even though I had done the litigation chair position, but there was still that, that doubt. So I don't know if that's just a Diana thing or if it's more pervasive as to women of color being put into these positions or if it's a little bit of both. But um I do value and appreciate Iveliz so much, but in particular that is always something that I go back to and when I did accept the position. Iveliz was definitely in my mind and I was definitely grateful along with others were also, you know, coming to me and making sure that I made the right call. 

Iveliz: I mean, I always say this, they could have interviewed 500 people and they wouldn't be found a better candidate than you. I mean, they, how you look at the law and how and just the quality of your ability to, you know, be a lawyer, right? And, and the skills that you have and also, you know, I think there's a lot of soft skills that come into running an entire department and I think you have that right? You have this desire right to make people better. It's not just about you and your career trajectory. You think about how you make the city better, you think about how you can make your attorneys that you work with better. Um And that right there I think is what makes people and particularly you such a good leader. Um Because yes. Right. It's a great opportunity, but also you think about everything else, you think about everything else in relation to that. And I think, you know, in my opinion, they couldn't have had a better decision when they, when they appointed you. So Diana, as I mentioned earlier, you are the first Latina to ever be appointed to city solicitor for the city of Philadelphia. Now, this is incredible, but it's also slightly disappointing, right? Because what we know about the makeup of the city and in particular, the city of Philadelphia, you know, we know is a minority, majority city. So I'm kind of curious how this dynamic of being the first but also working in a city and for a city, right, that is a majority minority population. How does that dynamic impact your approach to de I at the law department? 

Diana: No, that's a, a great question. And I agree it's, it is kind of disappointing along this I mean, we've never had a woman mayor in Philadelphia, let alone a woman of color mayor in Philadelphia. So I think, you know, there are definite strides all the way around. So being the first Latina City Solicitor um besides being a huge honor and privilege, I feel that it's, it further bolsters my cause to make sure that, that we further diversity, equity and inclusion, that sense of justice, that sense of making sure everything is done, right? And making sure that everyone you know, that works with me is conscious of the need to view things through this diversity, equity and inclusion lens. So one of the things that we do to ensure that at the law department, it started, I think it right before you left, at least we had started to implement the Mansfield Certification uh for the law department. So we have done that, not just for the supervisor levels. But that is a requirement we have for all of our vacancies. So all of all of our attorneys, our managers know that when they are considering applicants at least 50% or more for any position, every, any and every position they have to consider 50 or more percent women or minority applicants. In addition to that, we require that there be a diverse panel interviewing these different applicants and that there's also a DEI component question as well. And so our new diversity, equity inclusion and professional development, she, you know, if folks have questions as to like, what does that type of question look like? Like she is there to help them or at times she's invited. And so she is the one who asked that and other questions as well. But from the get go, you know, everyone including especially our applicants know that that is a core value for not just for me but for the entire law department. Uh and one of the things that we are implementing this upcoming um evaluation cycle is a DEI assessment for all of our attorneys. So that will be. So I think everyone's evaluations usually go into, you know, what are the, how is it an attorney or professional staff advancing in these different core skill sets for their everyday jobs? We, I mean DEI needs to be one of those. So that is one of the things that we are working on putting into our evaluations. As well during our evaluation process, when we meet with all the different managers on our one on one meetings, we also ask them, you know, what are their DEI goals? What were they before? What are they now where, you know, where are you at in that process? And again, how can we be helpful? It's also all about the messaging too and making sure that people know that yes, this is a change but there's no, there's no gotcha moment or anything like that. It is, you know, this is something that is important and we are here to work with you to make sure you understand it and then all of your people understand it because at the end of the day, not only is it right, morally, it's, it's the right thing to do to be a better lawyer. I mean, if we are to be the best lawyers possible, we gotta be thinking about all these different perspectives anyway, we got to be thinking about what motivates, you know, this plaintiff who is coming after us, what motivate I mean, we're, we should be thinking about this already. So it's, it's something that I think they already, a lot of them already do. But I think it's just basically bridging that gap of how this is. Also, it's a critical part of DEI. 

Iveliz: And one of the things I want to add because Diana is being modest. The city of Philadelphia Law Department is actually if not the first municipal law department, it's one of the first municipal law departments to attain Mansfield Certification usually. Um historically, it's been, you know, In-house law departments really at like, you know, global companies. So it's really impressive that, you know, you folks are pioneering what diversity and inclusion should look like. You know, not just in the private sector but also in the public sector where I think sometimes there's even more of an impetus because we are, you know, that's your public servants, right? You're representing your constituents. 

John: So Diana, it's fantastic change, but we know that change is not easy to accomplish. And you know, in our roles, we know, I call myself a change agent understanding that it's, you know, it's, it's a difficult process. So what have been some of your secrets to success? You know, obviously, change is not easy. What have been some of the challenges you've had in terms of managing all this change within your role. Obviously, you're the big boss, but you know, you gotta have the folks uh that adopted and, and be like you just mentioned, fully supported and, and pulling together. 

Diana: Yeah, no, that's, that's a great question. And what I should have done was asked some of the like the chairs or other members of my executive team who may, you know, to my benefit, filtering any type of direct negative feedback on it. But I think to me, well, one I haven't heard directly about that. But I think again, just coming from the perspective of this is we are here. I am here to help you. I've always made it clear that they, any questions people can come to me about it. And I, and I try to be consistent in my approach with everybody again and just saying, look, this is something that's very important for us as a department, as a city. I mean, the mayor has multiple executive orders ensuring that there is equity in our everyday lives in city government. So I think it's just making sure that we are all in compliance with that. But again, as a department, I'm I'm here to help you and to provide you any resources to do it. So I think that has been beneficial in any type of resistance. And I think again, just any questions I have not received anything like extremely negative or I shouldn't even say extremely, I haven't received anything negative saying I refuse to do this. I would tell you like that would be a separate conversation, but I think everybody knows that it's coming from a good place. And at the end of the day, I think it's just gonna make our whole department even better. 

John: Congratulations. 

Iveliz: So, Diana, I think when people hear the city solicitor's office, they assume that all that the law department does is defend the city against lawsuits. We know intrinsically that, that is just not true. But obviously, it is a misconception. I know that the city plays a very big role um in drafting a lot of that progressive legislation that we're seeing come out of the city of Philadelphia. Would you share some examples of some of that progressive legislation or bills that you've worked on either this past year or maybe in the last couple of years? 

Diana: Sure. So I think two pieces of legislation and just to clarify, I believe the Civilian Police Oversight Commission legislation and then also the achieving driving quality legislation, they, I think initially were not drafted by our office. Instead, I think the um the respective council members offices, Jones and, and Thomas had other assistance. However, we were involved in before those laws were introduced for a final vote, we were definitely consulted as required by the charter. So we definitely did have a part in advising, sort of like at that part. So I just wanted to clarify that, but you're right that we did have an integral role in those different in the passage of that legislation. So for the Civilian Police Oversight Commission, that is the first. So it is a commission, an oversight commission by different civilians to make, to better keep track of the Police Department and hold them accountable to many more things than what has been previously done. It is, is a tremendous piece of legislation and I think this in the past few months, they are starting to build out their board members. So trying to approach different people and I think they eventually do have to be brought before city council for a vote. It was, I think a herculean effort by our department because the, the legislation touched on so many different types of law, right? Because it impacted. It's how do we make sure this piece of legislation which needs to have the appropriate oversight. How do we make balance that with collective bargaining agreements, with labor law, with privacy law, with all of these other things that it touches upon? And so I think that was a very interesting challenge, but I think we were successful in that we were able to balance those different lines and um, have it passed? I think, I think it was unanimously before a city council and the mayor proudly signed it as, as did I, so I think that is something, you know, that we are all very proud of to be able to work with council member Jones and his staff, in particular, Samantha Williams who served as the, as the chief she drafted most if not all of it. And then with council member thomas' achieving driving equity bill. That is one where the his office, the police commissioner and the mayor's office aligned and you know, agreed to go forward with this the first of its kind in, in the entire country that it identifies eight low level traffic violations and moves them to secondary offenses. And so police are not allowed to stop somebody just for one of those eight secondary offenses. However, everything else in the motor vehicle code still counts as a primary offense. So someone can be stopped for a primary offense. And if an officer sees a secondary offense only then can they be ticketed for that. So those eight level offenses showed to have significant impact on a disparate impact on people of color. So I think it's an important first step in achieving racial equality. But I think also more importantly, trying to help heal the relationships between the police department and different communities of color, especially while we're dealing with the increase in violence. I think we definitely need to repair those relationships. So I think this is a very exciting and important uh legislation on that and we're also being sued by the, well, back, sorry, back to your point Iveliz that we don't just deal with getting sued, but in this particular case, we are getting sued by the FOP on this alleging that it is preempted. So we are, you know, responding to that, we, we feel very confident in our position. 

John: Great. Well, congratulations on that, Diana, just the first in the country, just a precedent setting, uh groundbreaking, innovative, so fantastic. So before we close, really all you've done with, with the, the law department, the city of Philadelphia is so much to be a model for other organizations, other municipalities and the like. So what advice or what kind of key takeaways can you give to other municipalities or other organizational leaders more broadly just looking to prioritize D&I, in their efforts? 

Diana: I would advise them to just be true to themselves again, to bring it sort of full circle to always be true to your core values and use that as your pillars as your North star in everything that you do. So I would hope and pray that as many municipal leaders out there want and fight for equity and justice and what is right for all and that that always guide them in their decisions and their discussions. And I think everyone will be better off for that. 

Iveliz: Well, thank you so much Diana and I, I think that's true, right? And I think that's a lesson that everyone can learn, right? Uh stay true to yourself and really let let your morals and your values, right? Your values of equity, your values of justice, be that guiding star I think is is fantastic advice to leave people with. And again, we John and I are just really happy that you had the time to be here. We know you're incredibly busy particularly now that we know you have some impending litigation, but we are so thankful that you were here. So thank you. 

Diana: Thank you both. This has been a great honor and a I think an invaluable time to take away from, you know, everything else. And I think it's also good to be reminded again of why is it that we're doing this work? So thank you both for allowing me to, to have that reminder with you, 

Outro: Inclusivity Included is a Reed Smith production. Our producer is Ali McCardell. This podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play, Stitcher, PodBean, and reedsmith.com. 

Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions, or comments made by any external guest speaker are not to be attributed to Reed Smith LLP or its individual lawyers. 

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