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Intro: Welcome to the Reed Smith podcast, Inclusivity Included, Powerful Personal Stories. In each episode of this podcast, our guests will share their personal stories, passions and challenges, past and present, all with a goal of bringing people together and learning more about others. You might be surprised by what we all have in common, Inclusivity Included.

Carolyn: Welcome back to Inclusivity Included. I'm Carolyn Rosenberg, along with my co-chair and partner, Jason Gordon. We are co-chairs of Reed Smith's Jewish Inclusion Committee, and we're excited today to discuss from Siberia to the BBC, a remarkable journey of both combating anti-Semitism and resilience. Our guests today are our partner and friend, Simone Goligorsky from London, and her father, Yuri Goligorsky. He's going to take us through an amazing journey as an escape as a child from Siberia, then to Israel, then to London with a remarkable career at the BBC. Without further ado, thank you very, very much to our guests. Jason, over to you.

Jason: Thank you, Carolyn. And we thank you both for attending this podcast today. Let's start with Yuri. So, can you take us back to life as a child and your escape from Siberia? Can you talk a little bit about what the conditions were like?

Yuri: First of all, thank you very much for inviting my daughter and myself. Delighted to be here. Now, let's go a little bit back in history. After Hitler and Stalin signed a pact effectively carving up Europe, they carved it up between themselves. My parents found themselves in the position where they were exiled from their native Bessarabia to Siberia. And that's where I was born. So to answer your question, I think it would be best to start from something which I couldn't possibly remember, but I was told about by my parents. On the The day I was born, the outside temperature was minus 30 degrees Celsius, which is minus 22 in Fahrenheit, I think. Believe me, that's cold. That's very, very cold. At home, we didn't have running water, so water had to be brought back home from a well operated by a wind pump. But there wasn't wind on that day, and the pipe got frozen. So my father collected some snow from the outside, melted it on the stove, and gave me my first bath. So, that's my love of snow and my father probably comes from that. I grew up in a rather harsh environment. I grew up mainly on a diet of potatoes, herring, cucumbers, and milk. Milk we had from a cow which we shared with our neighbors. So, to these very day, when my wife wants to make me happy, she prepares for me jacket potatoes with herring and some green salad, and that immediately melts my heart. If you ask me whether people could be happy in such circumstances, my answer is yes. Yes, in every situation, we must find a reason for joy and happiness. In other words, that's what's called resilience. That would help Jews to survive through so many centuries. And that's basically my life story there in Siberia.

Jason: Can you tell me what the anti-Semitism was like at the time? And for those who are not really the students of history can you talk a little bit about what it was like then?

Yuri: Jason remember I was born a year after stalin died he died in 1953 I was born in 1954 just before his timely I would say timely death soviet jews were on the verge of of being banished to Siberia, like my parents, which effectively meant a mass extermination. Jews were saved, yet again, by Stalin's demise. Purim's miracle, I would say it, because he died on Purim. The anti-Semitism then subsided after his death, but didn't disappear altogether. together. Antisemitism is often described as an irrational hatred, and I find this a bit disingenuous. Of course, it is rational. For me, antisemitism in the Soviet Union was based on envy, because Jews managed to survive despite every single, as they called, percentage norm or, The percentage norm is when people applied for a certain position, they wanted to go to university. People couldn't be accepted. I think the percentage norm at that time was no more than 4%. No more than 4% could be in any institution. But there were some very, very interesting circumstances. For instance, the head of Soviet TV in Brezhnev's times, a notorious anti-Semite, once told of the Russian conductor of the main TV symphony orchestra for employing too many Jews. And the conductor looked at him with a serious face and then said, guilty as charged, comrade. I am guilty, guilty, guilty. However, tell me, comrade, can you play violin? No? They can. That was the end of the story.

Jason: Tell me, how did you get to Israel? How did all of that happen?

Yuri: How it all started? I mean, I always felt as a Jew, and I'm not an observant Jew by all means, but I'm a Jew, always have been, always will be. At the age of 16, I started learning Hebrew with the help of the books smuggled in by the American Jewish tourists. Primers like Elif Milim or Mori were the most treasured possessions at that time. I was a rather diligent student of Hebrew, but to such an extent that at that time it was much, much easier for me to communicate with the visiting Americans in Hebrew rather than English. How else I could sort of bring myself to the Jewish world through Jewish music, Jewish songs, for instance, the recordings of the American Barry sisters. I don't know whether you heard them or value them as much as we did. For us in the Soviet Union, they were goddesses, and their recordings as well. I mean, people could charge enormous, enormous amount of money for the recording of these wonderful songs, to which I listened, I must admit, listened to this very day. They're on my recording machine, and I always put them to hear these wonderful voices. In a way, there were a lot of Americans. Israelis weren't allowed to come to the Soviet Union at the time, but Americans did come, and they brought some literature, some music, some artifacts. In 1972, there was an agreement, Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty agreement agreement signed between Nixon and Brezhnev. As a present to Nixon, Brezhnev decided to kick out the most vociferous critic of the Soviet regime, about 100 families. As it happened, I was one of those 100, and I took my entire family. At that time, I was 19. In 1973, my father, my mother, and myself were allowed to leave the Soviet Union. My brother was I was left as a hostage. He wasn't allowed to leave. And we were allowed to live on the understanding that I will keep quiet in the West. Otherwise, they would never let him out. However, I did exactly the opposite. I created a havoc in the world of publicity, and eventually, five months later, after we left, he was allowed to leave and join us in Israel.

Jason: And so, you were in Israel for how long, and then when did you get to London?

Yuri: I was in Israel. I went immediately to the university. I've studied cinema and TV at Tel Aviv University. And almost immediately after I finished my studies, I saw an advert in one of the local newspapers and that the BBC Russian service was looking for a relief producer for 20 weeks. It transpired that one of the producers was going on a maternity leave, and I had to come in her stead. And as one thing led to another, and these 20 weeks transformed into 30 years. By the time they realized I was still on the payroll, I was already in my pension age.

Jason: So you moved to London, and when you got to London or during your stay, did you ever experience anti-Semitism when you were there?

Yuri: Very interesting question. I came in 78, so 10 years after I came. One of the leading British newspapers, a supporter of the Conservative Party at the time, without a shadow of shame, concluded that Nigel Lawson's Jewish roots are sufficient grounds not to appoint him to a high post in the government. Nevertheless, Margaret Thatcher did appoint him as the Chancellor of the Exchequer, one of the most important positions in the British government. Talking about Margaret Thatcher, she had five Jews, five Jews at the key ministerial positions in her government. So is there anti-Semitism? I never felt any anti-Semitic outbursts at work, far be it.

Carolyn: So very interesting and Simone, you've been listening to this, your Yuri’s daughter, obviously, not sure how much of this whole story you knew or, but just curious, how have you been impacted? I mean, you're a flourishing partner at Reed Smith. We're delighted, you know, to have the story, but how have you been impacted and have you gone back to Russia?

Simone: So I have been to Russia. I've been to Moscow and I've been to St. Petersburg as a tourist in both cases. I haven't actually been to the country, so now Moldova, where my parents grew up. When my father left Siberia, he moved to Moldova and that is where he met my mother at school. So I've never been, but I hear it's beautiful. I know that the supermarkets in London stock wine from Moldova. So they've got a flourishing economy, and it's a place that I would like to visit. But when I visited Moscow and St. Petersburg, I did so as a tourist. I didn't feel any affinity to the country. It doesn't feel in any way like I have roots or connections there. And merely speaking the language I think was insufficient to create any sort of bond beyond something like a mere tourist feeling. In terms of how my father's story has impacted me, I think I will probably repeat this word quite a lot today, and it's gratitude. I think I feel incredibly grateful for the fact that knowing what my father and his parents and my uncle went through and how hard they had to fight to first get to Israel and then to the UK. I'm forever going to be grateful for the opportunities that I had to go to a wonderful school, a fantastic university that then set me up for life and the career that I have now. And the sacrifices that I know that both my parents had to make in order to provide the life that my sister and I now have. And I've said before, I'll say it again, it's just overwhelming gratitude.

Carolyn: So, you know, going back to Yuri’s beginnings with, you know, snow to be heated and potatoes to survive in and freezing cold weather, certainly an attempt to somewhat eradicate the family. And now the family has flourished. What's happened to other members of your family who've left Russia? We know about your sister and yourself, your brother, Yuri’s brother, Yuri, brother did make it out, yes? And is your family now pretty much concentrated in London or scattered?

Simone: So our family is very much scattered, I think. So my uncle, dad's brother moved to South Africa and played in an orchestra in South Africa before his daughter and her family moved to London. But actually parts of our extended family. Live as far afield as the US and Australia even. So we don't have many close relatives in London at all, actually. But what I find interesting is the story of my family, particularly in the US. So my father's cousin, and so he, my dad's grandmother, Sam, so dad's cousin's mother, that they were sisters. And she moved to the US and had a family there. And now her son, dad's cousin, Sam, became a judge in St. Louis. He and his wife set up their own law firm, practice family law in St. Louis. Their daughter is also a lawyer, a partner in a law firm in the US. So whilst I think that there are parallels now between our stories, I think the story of Sam's life in the US And dad's life first in Israel and then in London couldn't be more different because I think Sam really benefited from the American dream in the way that dad really had to be resilient and fight for everything that he's achieved to date.

Yuri: We are enormously closely close to each other.

Carolyn: That is apparent. And Yuri, speaking of your sort of living the dream or having the amazing journey, we understand you have that your sort of Soviet roots and backgrounds led to your consultancy on very successful productions of The Crown and Peter Morgan's play Patriots on Broadway. Can you tell us how your sort of experience and background informed your work on these productions? And I understand there might have even been an opportunity to rub shoulders with British royalty.

Yuri: Well, as far as rubbing shoulders with the royalty concerned, it was in 1990. I was then producer at the BBC World Service working on the English programmes. That was during the first Gulf War. And it was a rather intense time, to put it mildly. and one morning I find on my doorstep an invitation that Her Majesty, It requires and requires the presence of your company at the Buckingham Palace for tea and cucumber sandwiches.

Carolyn: Oh, you got cucumbers again!

Yuri: Yes, yes. Well spotted. Yes. And when Her Majesty requires the pleasure of your company, who am I to refuse? And my wife and myself, as you understand, I don't keep in my wardrobe a morning suit. We immediately had to fire down morningg attire because to go to Buckingham Palace, you have to be properly attired. And we went to a shop and hired morning attire and went to the Buckingham Palace. And that was quite an experience. Three orchestras, three bands, a majesty, her husband at that time, Prince Philip, their children, about 150, 200 more guests. We were standing around chatting as if we belonged to the place. I mean, the royalty have this fantastic ability to make you the center of their attention. I was privileged to take Princess Anne, the elder daughter of the queen, to Kiev to the first ever broadcast of the BBC World Service from the territory of the Soviet Union. That was in 1990, and she meant to spend with us at the studio there 20 minutes. Two and a half hours later, I still was describing to her what was going on and indicating that you were expected elsewhere, and she gently told me, Mr. Goligosky, I know what I'm doing. Please continue. So she was, I mean, that's something unique. They are probably well-trained, but when they talk to you, you immediately get an impression that there is nothing else but you and what you're doing is the center of their attention, and they're not interested in anything else. It's amazing.

Carolyn: How did you come about to have a role in the series The Crown and the Broadway show recently, The Patriot, which I know got rave reviews?

Yuri: Well, I count Peter Morgan, the author of all these productions, as a great friend. First, I translated one of his plays called The Audience. It was a hit on Broadway a few years back. I translated it into Russian and it became a smashing success in Moscow. It was running to full houses between 2017 to 2021, just effectively before the war started, with Ukraine. But after I've translated that and he saw how successful it was, he invited me to become a consultant on the Patriots, which he was drafting at that time. And in parallel, he suggested I should work as his consultant on The Crown, in the part of it where Her Majesty was meeting with the then president of Russia, Boris Yeltsin. So that's how collaboration grew up into a friendship. And I cherish his friendship very much.

Carolyn: You know, we titled this, you know, from Siberia to the BBC, a remarkable journey of resilience. But as a professional and certainly well-accomplished producer, if you were producing your own life story, what would you give it as the title? And what would you suggest were the enduring lessons learned?

Yuri: As a lesson I've learned, the most important thing is never forget where you came from, always remember where you go to, and most importantly. Remember who will be the ultimate judge of what you've done for the years. As to the title of my life story, should I decide one day to author an autobiography. It has to have clear Jewish connections that be understood by everybody. It has to have a double meaning, but also has to be sure. So I came up with the title “Mazel Tov[!]” with an exclamation mark as an option in brackets.

Carolyn: We heartily endorse that for what it's worth.

Simone: And I think if it were made into a film, I think obviously it would be George Clooney that's playing you, Dad, because the resemblance is uncanny.

Jason: Now, is Peter Morgan writing it?

Yuri: My daughter. That's my daughter.

Carolyn: Simone, there has to be a strong part for you as well.

Simone: Well, I would hope so. I would hope so. I think one story of Dad's history that I absolutely love that he didn't tell because there are so many fascinating stories is when he organized a phone-in with Margaret Thatcher when he was at the BBC and people thought it couldn't be done. People from Moscow phoning in, asking Margaret Thatcher questions. And we still have in our family home photos of Dad with Margaret Thatcher and also a snippet from the newspaper the following day where there was actually a cartoon done about this phone-in. And I think it's difficult to live up to these stories because in my day-to-day, I don't mix with Her Majesties and their children and prime ministers. But it's always fascinating to hear these stories. And Carolyn, to go back to one of your earlier questions, a lot of these stories I'm hearing today for the first time, I now know where my dad's love from hearing comes from. I don't think I knew that previously, but I knew some of them. I think it's always fascinating hearing these stories. And I think it's important that we continue hearing these stories and remembering these stories and teach these stories to the next generation, because I think that's how we're going to ensure that what my dad and his family went through never happens again.

Carolyn: And on that note, when you say, Yuri, you know, they said it couldn't be done. I think that's a remarkable legacy to you and Simone and your extended family of how you've, you know, overcome the obstacles and not only flourish, but had remarkable success. On that note, we wanted to thank you so much for being our guest today and to thank our audience for tuning in.

Yuri: Thank you for inviting us.

Simone: Thank you very much.

Outro: Inclusivity Included is a Reed Smith production. Our producers are Ali McCardell and Shannon Ryan. You can find our podcasts on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, reedsmith.com, and our social media accounts.

Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions, or comments made by any external guest speaker are not to be attributed to Reed Smith LLP or its individual lawyers.

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